Posted by Carol on February 02, 2002
Jeff LangWho out there has had experience using latex/acrylic on one of the aluminum panels available (Dibond, Alumilite, Lustre Board,etc.)? Does it adhere well? Need to be primed? If so, with what? Times they are a changin.
CarolCarol,
I have painted Alumalite© & DiBond© with XIM-UMA primer & finished with Porter paint. It has held very well & I prefer the water based paints. I did scuff the baked enamel first before priming.
I have had great success with XIM brands & use the UMA (Urethane Modified Acrylic) for most of my priming. Sherwin Williams stores carry the XIM brands.
Good Luck,
Jeff
XIM's Website
http://www.ximbonder.com/
Danny BaronianThanks, Jeff. I agree about XIM primer. I don't think Porter Paint is available here, but we do have quality acrylic/latex available. I was hoping I wouldn't have to prime the baked enamel but sounds like I will.
Rick SacksGet Bulldog, a clear coating, availabe from auto body supply shops in spray or quarts cans. The manufacture lists it as a Adhesion promoter, flex agent and tie coat.
It can also be used on almost any type of substrate. I use it frequently on sintra to cover with latex acrylic, and find it extremely durable.
In a pinch, you might be able to use Frog Juice, which you may have on hand, but I'd test first.
Bulldog would be my first choice.
Danny
CarolWe once put Ti-Cote on Sintra and rolled enamel on it and it has held up well in a state park. The bulldog sounds good for baked enamel on aluminum. Why are you wanting to letter with acrylic rather than 1 shot ?
Jay AllenPart of my reason in trying something new and what I think is the trend in paint. Also, lettering enamel ain't what it used to be and latex/acrylic is better and better. The mural I worked on in Cornwall as well as the mural designed by Gary Anderson were both acrylic. Gary swears by it and I want to test it out.
Danny,
You're one of those guys I like to hang with. You have experience with - and usually a solution to - a lot of different applications and materials.
We're still benefitting from your suggestion on using an engraving bit to cut sandblast stencil on the router. Thanks a bunch for still helping some of those past the 'beginner' stage of this biz. I'll try to return the favor.
Do you use the acrylic painted Sintra/PVC sheet indoors only - or outdoors too? We have had such trouble with PVC outdoors that is painted with darker colors. They move a bit shall we say - changing sizes by the hour in the summer probably. Mike Sheehan uses a lot of PVC outdoors succesfully - but he's down thar' in Florida - and rarely sees great temperature swings like we do here in northern Illinois.
Jay Allen
url:www.shawcraft.com
Danny Baronian
Mike Jackson - PVCOn Sintra/PVC we use it both indoors and out. Outdoors we’ve had panels up for 2 years without problems, indoors 4.
The first job we used bullfrog was for a client that wanted cut out steel letter, rusted before installation. Not having the equipment to cut the letters, nor the time to order waterjet letters, we cut PVC letters, coated with bullfrog, and applied ‘instant rust’. Ended up with lightweight letters that looked like steel that had been outdoors for years.
Bullfrog is made primarily for priming plastic car bumpers, so it’s geared for rough, flexible, exterior use. From my experience it works on any type of material, though I wouldn’t use it on bare aluminum.
If for no other reason, get a small amount and try it yourself. When time allows, do a test piece – coat it out, date it and stick it outside. This has saved a lot of grief in the long run. The last thing anyone needs is an annoyed client calling about a failing product.
I’d like to talk to Mike Sheehan, or any others that are using PVC frequently. A fair amount of work is being done from Seattle to Florida, with 1/2" to 3/4" PVC, routed, and finished. Must be a good reason. With panels that thick, PVC may be more expensive than HDU, and moving around a 3/4" panel would really be a pain.
Danny
I can add a little here, too:
We did a set of 9" letters out of 3/4" Sintra (PVC) about 15 years ago. They are still up and going strong! As a matter of fact, one set faces south and gets sunlight all day. I coated the entire face, cove, and edges with XIM Clear (it might have been XIM white...been too long). After another couple of coats of white industrial enamel, we gilded the coves and installed them. We used XIM a few other times and had good results. Other products will probably work, but we know that one did for us.
PVC sandblasts poorly! Don't even think of it. After about an hour in one square foot, we were only able to go in about 1/16". Yikes! It was just a test piece, thank goodness.
We made some strips about 5 foot long and about 4" tall to be used on a directory once. The strips were fastened with screws at the corners and at the top and bottoms at the mid-point. It looked great, but as soon as the sun warmed up one side, the PVC expanded, creating about a 1" pucker on either side of the center screws. The important observation here is that it is not that stable outside and will expand enough to cause problems. After that, we learned to only use it on small panels, letters, and accents.
We did quite a few letters out of PVC in which we allowed for a 1/4" or so outline when we cut the letter on the Gerber Router. Without painting the letters, we would nail and silicone glue them to a sandblasted panel using small finish nails or brads. After the letters were fastened, we overlayed the front of the letter with vinyl of the appropriate color(cut to the normal size), letting the while outline show. We occasionally used the Edge to create interior outlines and blends or special effects. When we wanted a white outline, the process was very slick and had low labor costs.
Joe Crumley, told me about selling a bunch of Red PVC on a job in Norman, OK. He can expand on it if necessary, but he bought the pre colored red PVC, cut and installed the letters. After a few weeks, the client called and wanted him to come look at the letters. Well...they had all turned baby butt pink. I mentioned this story to a salesperson at a trade show one time, and they told me they had solved that problem, but I don't think I would trust the colorized panels without some extensive tests.
One of the great advantages of PVC is that it cuts really well in a CNC router. As a matter of fact, you don't even have to worry about the letter jumping around after the final micro cut because the fibers fill in right behind the bit as it cuts. With the right bit, it cut like a dream. I never really like cutting it with a sabre saw, however. For plain old white cut out letters, I think it is the way to go.
Mike Jackson
Denver Chapter of the Letterheads