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Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

Moderators: Ron Percell, Mike Jackson, Danny Baronian

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Site Man
Posts: 573
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:03 am
Location: Marlborough, MA

Are Ya Happy?

Post by Site Man »

OLD FORUM POSTS

Posted by Bob on December 05, 2001
Hi People,
I just want to touch base with everybody about there feelings on where the Sign Indusrty has wound up.
The post about , "The Hand lettering Trance" made me reflect a bit.
I hate sitting in front of a computer screen to make Signs, I know I don't "HAVE TO", Yes I read Mike's article on the "Gary Anderson Theory", However within2 miles of me is a shop that does Dry Cleaning AND makes signs (No startch in the Helvetica please)in the other direction there is a shop that does signs AND is a Notary, sells insurance AND makes keys !.
A 3'x10' Banner in my area sells for $39.00 !!
So to a large degree, the computer, and vinyl is necessary.
I wasn't trained this way, and I hate what the indusrty has become !.
Maybe to day I'm just down,however I'm really thinking about changing professions.
Anybody else ever felt like this ? Bob
Mike Jackson
Bob,
There are a lot of things we see but don't like, however, quite a few of them we can't personally control. The other guy charging so little is not something you can control here, but you CAN control your side of the equation. There is a slice of the business world that will go to those kinds of places, and there are quite a few of those kinds of places that are forced to compete against each other. Competing in that arena looks like a no-win situation.

I think many successful business people have the gift of identifying a problem that bothers them and then also have the skills to develop a plan of attack to either solve the problem or distance themselves from it. As these other posts indicate, you probably need to re-adjust your aim and go for a different clientelle base. This issue is not new, either. I read a few of Atkinson's letters to a fellow sign maker from the turn of the century and he was complaining of the other shops doing work for next to nothing.

Make a new plan, impliment your plan, and if that plan doesn't work, make a new plan! I don't think things will get better for you until you make the changes.

Mike Jackson


Mike Jackson - Gary Anderson is Coming
Hi Bob,
Since you mentioned it, I'd be curious if you thought Gary Anderson could make it in your town after a few months of getting his feet wet and his "cards out"?

Mike Jackson
Cam
So, you have a dry-cleaner who pushes out banners for $39, and lovely banners they are, I'm sure. And this has what to do with your business?
Do you honestly WANT the customers who go to a dry cleaner for a $39 banner? What does that tell you about their taste or willingness to spend money on anything decent?

I decided a long time ago to concentrate on the few discriminating customers who can tell the difference between good and bad, and are willing to pay for it. They are out there, in every town, including yours - but I respectfully submit that you will not find them while banging out vinyl and fretting over a dry-cleaner's banner prices.

To answer the original question: What is the state of the sign business? That answer is in the mindset of every individual in this business. Those who are positive about their work, their lives and the choices they make, think it's fine.

One more note: I would personally LOVE IT if Gary Anderson set up shop in my town. The general level of quality of work would increase, and prices would rise accordingly.
Raymond Chapman
While the computer may have altered the way many of us do business, I do not believe it is the personification of evil. In every generation there have been those individuals who have raped the sign business.

In my younger days there were people who could easily get into the sign business with a brush, a can of paint, and a free yard stick from the lumber yard. They caused just as much havoc as the loose nut with a computer.

While I enjoy the feeling of having a brush in my hand I am also not blind to the long days of doing several signs just alike or those dreaded pool rules signs which we mention so often. My computer has freed me from the monotony of repitition with a brush and has opened up new areas for creativity.

In my town we have the same kind of people that you mentioned - the jack of all trades who does just about anything, including banners and tree trimming. Prices for some signs can barely cover the cost of the materials. And yet there are also those who command good prices and do quality work.
The "snapper" of another generation is alive and well...and living in my back door. Legislation will not take him away, neither will complaining about the fact that he (or she) is ruining the business. They are there - live with it!

I don't want Gary Anderson in my town. First, he would make my attempts at design look like kindergarten finger paintings and second, he would be getting twice what I am for his work and be covered up with business within a year. And there would still be those sign shop owners who would be sitting back and saying, "You can't get those prices in my area".

Have you ever wondered why a Lexus cost the same in New York City as it does in Little Rock, or Akron, or Long Beach, or Temple (where my shop is located)? And what is even more amazing is that people are buying those things in every one of those towns.

OK, end of sermon.
Danny Baronian
Hey Ramond,

How many other shops are driving around said Lexus, other than you, of course! ;-)

Danny
Raymond Chapman
Hey, my '92 Mazda with 180,000 miles is still going great, what would I need with a Lexus?


Mike Jackson
Hi Raymond,
I think you covered the angles on this topic very well! Maybe you should write articles and go on the lecture circuit. :)

The underlying theme of the Gary Anderson theory is to try to visualize Gary actually coming to your town and setting up shop. If that scares you because you think there might be chance he could pull it off, then it means the problem isn't so much with the town and the businesses and more with the sign shop's skills and motivation. If that issue is highlighted, then the person can rise to the challenge to improve on a variety of skills...selling, presentation, samples, design, education, portfolio, production, and so forth. Gary is one of a failry small group that has bundled all that into a solid package. If he can do it, others "should be able" to do it. To be more specific, when I was writing the article for SC, I called Gary to ask him a few questions. Yes, he has the same kind of low budget sign companies in his town and area, too. The kind that sell neon signs and fix boots...neither well. I heard some of this same stuff when in Australia a few years ago, as we drove through some of the most exclusive neighborhoods imagineable. Some people have higher standards of tastes, and it is apparent they will pay for them. The trick is to develop the reputation so they find you when their new project comes up.

Bob, if you EVER get a chance to attend one of Gary's design seminars, beg-borrow-steal the money to get there. I believe you will be a changed person afterwards. Some of his skills and motivation rub off on everyone attending. I hear Raymond's seminars are great, too!

Mike Jackson
Raymond Chapman
Hmmmmm....write articles and lecture. Now, what didn't I think of that?

As an additional thought I would suggest that you surround yourself with positive thinking people. You tend to immulate those with whom you are involved. If the general attitude is one of "look how everything is going to . in a handbasket" you will take on that attitude without actually being aware of it.

Mike's advice is a good one. Anytime I have the opportunity I try to stick as close as possible to Gary. Just being around him is a stimulant to want to do better work and to approach situations with a new attitude.

In my forty years in this business I have experience both the positive and the negative aspects of our trade. Either one will control you if you let it.

And Mike, thanks for including the plug for my seminars.


Danny Baronian
Hi Bob,

Ever thought about changing professions, sure, who hasn’t… BUT… the thought is short lived. I enjoy what I’m doing, met some of the nicest people you’d want to meet, continue to learn and still have managed to make a decent living.

What else would you really like to do? If you’ve considered changing professions, you’ve surely compiled a mental list your alternatives. What would yours be, and not just you Bob – everyone else out there – what is your short list of doing something different?

We recently went to the mountains, and passed two sign shops that also make kitchen cabinets and counter tops. I have seen similar shops in other communities, but those tend to be in small towns, populations of under 5000. Where is your shop located? Do you see the types of shops (sign/key/notary) you mentioned in other nearby towns?

Danny
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