Keith Knecht & LIP

[Steven Vigeant]

I've been working on the Letterhead Interview Project a little bit. Transcribing takes a lot of time. I finished up the Keith Knecht material I have from Cincinnati. I can't resist sending out the first rough sample, which appears to be classic. Please let me know if you have any feedback or facts that go with any of the following. I'm planning on doing some extensive follow-up interviewing with Keith. If you can think of a question for him, please let me know and I'll ask him as part of the interview.

The Eighth Original

Well I had a bunch of things in ST and that was the only sign magazine until 1980 before SignCraft had come out. In about 74 I had the whole cover of ST and a 4 page spread inside. And you know when you get in a magazine people call you and write you and everything. And I got a call from a young guy in Denver. I didn’t know who he was. He was an apprentice at the union apprenticeship program, that they had back then. And we talked for quite awhile on the phone. And when I got off I said to myself. You know if this guy has any talent at all he’s going to be a pretty good sign painter, because he’s got that fire in his belly. He’s got that desire to be able to learn and you know, go. It was Mark Oatis. I got talking to him and they were into the old, they found an old Atkinson book and they were talking about that stuff. They were having get-togethers at Rick Flores’ shop. And I said go out there and dig up these old sign painters. There’s got to be some old sign painters in Denver. Maybe even retired, but bring them over to your meetings. I said maybe you think they’re cranky old men, and a lot of them were, but if they think you're really serious, really dedicated, then they have a lot to share with you. They’re the historians, the keeper of the flame, so they did that. They brought over Earl Stigglemyer and Willie Creal, some of them in their 80’s. So they kept bugging me. “When are you coming out.” so I took the train out there. I love traveling by train. This was I think about 1980 and I got there and I stayed at Rick’s house and they said they were going to have a get together on Wednesday night. Earl Vehill and Mark Oatis and these guys, and they have the old sign painters there, bringing their old sketchbooks and portfolios. And all of a sudden, Mark got up and said we have to take care of some business and it seems that they had already discussed it. So I stepped back and I’ll let them take care of their thing, and I’ll go over in the corner. And he said we have a name that has been brought up for membership in the Letterheads and we think this is the time to do it. And he said Keith Knecht will you please step up here. So I had to go through the whole thing and repeat after me and all that stuff.

[Kent Smith]

Nice to see some of this in print.

Couple of notes: Earl Stieglemeyer was an apprentice to John Ohnimus at Alden Sign Co. in Denver along with my old friend and mentor, Ted Brunskill. The last time I saw either of them was when I took them to lunch together, along with Erv Higgins another LH mentor, about 3 months before Ted died at age 85.

Willie Creel was an apprentice of my Dad's. Willie was a nickname for his given name which was too difficult to pronounce much less spell as he was a full blooded Native American. Many of his layouts and certainly the dingbats he used reflected his heritage.

What Keith is referring to is the Letterhead Creed which Mark created to induct the first new member, still used today in it's original form. (this explains my comments to Keith in Cincinnati)

Keep up the transcriptions as annecdotal history is important.

[Sarah King]

I agree. This is really great.

I had a great chat with Keith in Cincinnati about the origin of the term "Angel Gilding." I thought that Rick Glawson had invented it but Keith said that it was much older than that. I am very sorry that I didn't make notes at the time, but it was right before the big dinner and I didn't have a pencil and paper or anything.

I have been collecting material for an article about the history of the gold mirrored stained glass windows in Chicago. I know that the glass for these windows was Angel Gilded by, among many others, Frank Drehobl of Drehobl Art Glass. Frank was good firends with Mr. Pine (?) of Western Sandblasting. I would love to include any information Keith might have about Angel Gilding or silvering or the Chicago sign men or any related topics.

I hope this is not too far off the track from talking about the Letterheads. It's all part of the same grand endevour. Any info at all would be very much appreciated.

Sarah

[Steven Vigeant]

Absolutely Sarah, I'm hoping that the interviews will yield information about our larger shared experience as sign people, but even further, as it reveals a sense of the place of sign makers in American graphic history. This process tends to generate it's own buzz as the stories unfold. The more informed I can be from everyones input helps to open up this process, and we can certainly explore the deeper past that made Letterheads possible. It had just dawned on me recently that I'd like to interview you Sarah. And Kent, I've listened to your interview (~1 hour) a couple of times, and it is special, very deep and it is a great inspiration to collect and archive. I'll hopefully be sending you a transcript to look at before too long.(We had our third child 3 months ago and I'm on stolen time) I think the bigger picture of sign history from personal experience is not only educational for posterity, but I'm feeling that it can be surprisingly useful for understanding our current business. I've relived the Zoo meet twice by listening to the tapes and it helps reinforce the lessons we learned there. I also would like to stick with analog tapes, and make every effort to preserve them.
Please all, send along lines of questioning if they occur to you. I'll try to upload some starting points when possible, and right now it's all about the brush slinger from Toledo.

[Kent Smith]

The first time we heard the term Angel Gilding was from Willie, the fellow at Western Sandblast who told us what he knew about their processes and Mr. Pine's history. I wish I had taken notes then but Rick was so I thought there was no need to duplicate what he was doing. Now I find my memory is not as reliable as I would like to think it is. Rick did some research and found the term in a patent serarch. I don't remember who held the patent but it appears that it dates back to the 1800's. I would guess either Rawson & Evans or Western Sandblast.

[Mike Jackson]

Steven,
I suspect if you ask Mark Oatis, he's supply you with the official copy of the old "Letterhead Creed". Somewhere in one of my many piles and boxes of Letterheads "stuff", I have one Mark sent that he hand wrote. He probably has it written down somewhere, too, and if not, I am sure he could recite it well enough to get the point across. I heard him spit it out on numerous occasions from memory. Maybe my copy of it will surface someday, but I seldom go through that stuff.

Of additional interest are some letters written by Frank Atkinson to Charlie Thames. Photocopies of the letters probably reside in quite a few file cabinets. They are quite insightful, especially considering the time in history in which they were written, mostly during and following the depression. It seems to me these things need to be transcribed and preserved for this and future generations. Frank was a bit of a "schemer". He had a grand idea of going from city to city with a crew of sign makers to build and paint some sort of "victory arches" or murals to promote patriotism (and make some money). I don't think any of them ever panned out, but it was interesting to read how he was promoting the idea to Charlie.

I believe Mark has copies of the letters. I have photocopies of photocopies.

Good luck,
Mike Jackson

PS, for any readers, the "Creed" sounds like some sort of sacred, official document. Maybe it is to some extent, but I believe Mark wrote it to take some of the potential stuffiness off the Letterhead "movement". If you ever hear it or read it, you will know what I mean.

[Mike Jackson]

Also, if you get to talk with Keith any more, be sure to get him to talk about Beverly Sign Company. Tell him HI for me, too!

Mike Jackson

[Kent Smith]

Beverly Sign was the one I could not remember although as we travelled together, Keith had many tales about the company and those who worked there. The Atkinson letter to Charlie Thames is one of my favorites, not only because of the Kipling quote but also because it was written about a month after I was born.

I have a word file copy of the creed from Mark's original handwritten which I also have in the file. He gave me "license" to rattle it off when requested so I have to have the printed copy to recite from because they are Mark's words, not mine. Anyway, I am willing to share the file to those interested, it is just not appropriate for general publication.