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Gilding Lead Came

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

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Rich Hawthorne
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:22 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon USA

Gilding Lead Came

Post by Rich Hawthorne »

This may be obscure and since it is my first of many questions, please forgive the naivite (sp?). I am a stained glass artist and something I have read about but never seen is gilded lead came. I would like to give this a try on a small piece but a couple of immediate questions come to mind:

1. Since it will be a surface gild on untreated metal how would you recomend I prepare the surface (cleaning, etc.) of the lead?

2. I assume it should be either a quick size or a slow size. Which do you think would work best?

3. How should I protect the leaf (surface gild) for the long haul?

4. Has anyone seen this type of gilding before?

Best wishes.
Sarah King
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:43 pm
Location: Oak Park IL
Contact:

Post by Sarah King »

Rich,

I do a lot of stained glass repair and I've never seen gilded lead - which is not to say that it can't or shouldn't be done. I don't do surface gilding so someone else will have to chime in on how to gild lead and the lead/tin solder that holds the window together.

You could get almost the same effect by using brass came or brass crowned lead came. Both would be more durable than a gold leaf finish - and you would save yourself the extra step of gilding the window once its done. You would still have to color the solder joints to match the came. Most stained glass guys do this with one of those gold paint pens you can buy in the magic marker section of the office supply store.

I have repaired windows from the 1920's where the came appeared to be gilded but close examination showed that the gold was the same as the gold from the above mentioned gold paint pen. Just paint, not leaf.

You should be able to buy brass and copper came as well as zinc came and brass crowned lead came from your stained glass supplier. If they don't have it, as them to call Ed Hoy's International - a big stained glass wholesaler near Chicago.

I hope this answer doesn't sound too discouraging. New ideas - and experiementing with old ideas - are always worth it if only for the learning experience. I hope that somebody on this site has some ideas about gilding lead. It has to have been done before.

I'd love to see a photo of your finished piece.
Sarah King
AngelGilding.com
James Warwick
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:19 am

suggesting an alternative

Post by James Warwick »

Hi Rich...

I have never done stained glass or know much about it.
My thoughts are:

Since you want to put gold on metal came, I would think plating would be a better way.
I'm talking about the same way people plate the car emblems while on the car.
There are several people selling these plating kits. You could check for somebody (detailing or custom shops) doing this in your area to determine if can be done. You might have to plate copper first then gold. I would think it would hold up better than paint, look even, and hide the joints.

If you investigate, please post results.......
Rich Hawthorne
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:22 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon USA

Post by Rich Hawthorne »

Thanks Sarah and James for your thoughts. I have made a few pieces with both brass and copper came. I didn't like it because, unlike lead, it does not bend very well. The result is you are pretty limited to geometric designs or large gradual curves. I have also repaired several old pieces which had gold paint on the lead. I cannot remember where I read about this but will continue to investigate it. My biggest concern is getting the surface of the lead really clean of flux, window glaze and any other type of contamination which may prevent the gild from adhearing.

Thinking about it from a design point of view I have some concern that the gilded lead would detract from the glass itself. The "trick" with using lead is to incorporate the lines into the design and gilding the came could make that even more challenging. Another technique I have seen in some old books is carved lead came. That is another technique on my list to attempt some day. So much to do, so little time.

I will let you know if I try the experiment and the result. Certainly painting the came would be easier and less expensive.

Regards
Dennis Davis
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:07 am
Location: Boise, Idaho

Post by Dennis Davis »

Folks,

What you are forgetting is...what we have here is a gilding student fresh from the workshop in Boise. Noel and John have lit a fire under Rich and now he looks at everything with a "how would that look gilded" frame of mind. Rich, good luck in your search for answers on the prospect of gilding came. (Uh, shouldn't you be practicing for that recording session in LA instead of posting here?? Oh, you were just taking a practice break. Good plan.)

Best...Dennis
Dennis Davis
Boise, Idaho
Danny Baronian
Site Admin
Posts: 638
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:16 am
Contact:

Post by Danny Baronian »

For surface gilding as you describe, use 1 shot quick size followed by leafing.

If I remember correctly after the came is filled it's washed with muratic acid, followed by a wash of cleaning solution, which should remove any flux residue. Will the glass ever be clean enough that the glazing compound is eliminated? Gold will stick to the glazing compound as well as the size.

How long do you expect the gold to hold up under normal cleaning, will the customer follow cleaning instructions, and how soon would it be until a customer tells you the gold is failing after ignoring instructions? Will you need to clear coat, a step usually reserved for vehicles?

Lastly, will you be able to add a premium price when the client's budget is already maxxed out?

For a personal project, or for a client with deep pockets, go for it.... and start testing.
Danny Baronian
Baronian Mfg.
CNC Routing & Fabrication
http://www.baronian.com
Rich Hawthorne
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:22 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon USA

Post by Rich Hawthorne »

Thanks for your insights Danny. I appreciate the advice. For now, this is experimentation and the project will be a personal project. I understand what you mean about the additional cost and customer behavior. I will post any results I come up with, good or bad.

Regards
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