Glass Tombstones

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erik winkler
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Glass Tombstones

Post by erik winkler » Fri May 23, 2008 12:15 pm

I was wondering if an of you guys and girls ever made a glue chipped, gilded etc tombstone.
And are there any pictures of them?
Maybe a bit inapropriet to show something private, but i was just imagining some artistic pieces.
I think it would be loved to have something beautfull and durable for eternity.
Last edited by erik winkler on Fri May 23, 2008 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Patrick Mackle » Fri May 23, 2008 1:29 pm

There are some glass tombstones websites that will make your jaw drop. They are made of cast glass, around 5 to 6 inches thick, and 6 to 8 ft. tall. They take thick plate glass, stack it up in a kiln with fiber board dams and melt it into one solid monolith. They must require at least a week to anneal that mass. Next they are saw cut and finished into shape. Some photos of these memorials are shown of them installed in place with the morning sun blazing through them. Very impressive!
It would be great to create one with a hand honed finish and then treat the edges with a large scalloped chipped ice effect by using a carbide tipped mallet. You could also incorporate other materials, stone, stainless steel, and sculpted concrete. Precious metals like gold chloride and palladium, also lusters could be permanently fired onto the glass.
If you could rise above the energy and labor costs one's imagination could run wild, only limited by the expenditure of the customer.
Pat

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Post by erik winkler » Fri May 23, 2008 1:34 pm

Hello Patrick,

Well i know that costs often is not a big problem with making tombstones.
A normal marble kitchen plate next to the sink costs about 1/3 of the same size and work the have for a marble tombstone. I am not trying to misuse sentiments, but i just wanted to point out that often money is not an issue making a nice memorial for family and relatives.
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Post by Roderick Treece » Fri May 23, 2008 3:47 pm

Pat,
Don't hold out.What are those web sites?

Roderick

Patrick Mackle
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Post by Patrick Mackle » Fri May 23, 2008 6:59 pm

Rod,
A fellow glass artist directed me to a few last year. I believe they were urls that I simply clicked on and did not save.
I recall one was a fellow in Canada by the name of Joel Berman. He does some large size warm glass installations. I believe he is currently testing the demand in Dubai. Check him out for now.
Pat

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Post by Dennis Davis » Fri May 23, 2008 8:39 pm

You can view some sample on this site. http://www.lundgrenmonuments.com/memorials/index.html
Dennis Davis
Boise, Idaho

erik winkler
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Post by erik winkler » Sat May 24, 2008 12:41 am

Hello Patrick & Dennis,

Both this Joel Berman (http://www.jbermanglass.com) and http://www.lundgrenmonuments.com/memorials/index.html make some pretty nice glassworks, but it is absolutely not glue chipped, gilded or silvered.
I think there is a big market, no compettion and a lot of money in making this new style tombstones.
I just wander if it is neccesary to burn the gold in the glass. Is there no other way to maintain de silver and/or gold to adhere outside on a glasstombstone for 30 years or more?

Erik
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Post by Patrick Mackle » Sun May 25, 2008 12:34 pm

Lundgren was one of the sites that my friend alerted me to.
As far as other ways to durably affix gold or silver to the glass slab, this comes to mind. You would have to treat the glass to a vitreous conductive coating, and then electroplate on the gold. You would have to use nickel or titanium or palladium instead of silver, as silver would tarnish.
A possible cold process would be a product like "Metal On". In which a hard polyresin in loaded with a lot of fine metal particles. As the resin sets, these metal flecks rise to the surface as a dull metallic coating. When completely set, the metallic resin is buffed with polishing compound and the surface becomes highly metallic. Sometimes the process is called "cold casting". The large fiberglass bronze figures outside of Caesar's Palace Casino in Las Vegas have this treatment and seem to weather the elements very well.
As far as shaping the glass, that could be done on a diamond bladed band saw initially, then as demand grows, a water jet machine.
Also, the addition of colored glass, with florals and scenes would be outstanding. Wouldn't it be awesome to create headstones that looked like Galle, Lalique, Tiffany and La Farge! Truly a fitting memorial to one's time on earth.
One could get started by doing 1ft. square samples to test firing and annealing times.
Pat

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Post by erik winkler » Sun May 25, 2008 12:54 pm

Pat thanks for your reply,

I had re-read your first couple of sentences a few times to comprehend the technique you descripe.
But this could not be the technique i had in mind. It is just the technique of breaking the surface of glass and use that reliëf for a beatifull glitter accented with gilding or silvering, like the stuff you guys do. The color stuff is already used for tombstones here in Nederland (Europe), but gilding (only on sandblasted text in marble) and espacially glue-chipping not.

There must be a relative simple technique to sort this out...
I know that since the Roman days, renaissance and of course in the period of the French 'sun-king' Louis VI etc. glas objects are forever aplicated with gold.

Here a 'simple' roman object and short summarary of manufacturing.

Image
Gold-glass roundel. Roman Empire, Italy, 4th century A.D. D. 9.7 cm.

"The term applied to several types of Hellenistic and ancient Roman glass objects decorated with designs cut and/or engraved in gold leaf, which is sandwiched between two fused layers of glass. Hellenistic gold glass was made by sandwiching the decoration between two closely fitting, cast, ground, and polished vessels, which were then fused. Many Roman gold glasses apparently were made by applying the gold leaf to the surface of an object, reheating it, and inflating a parison against the decorated surface."

I hope maybe we can continue this kind of process in our own 21th century way for tombstones or the like.

Hope to hear from you,
Erik

p.s. By the way... Gallé and Lalique are absolutely the summon in glass art!!!
Style, technique, light, relief, texture and shapes are made as supernatural amorpheus creatures from nature.
This in a tombstone would guide me to the cemetary of Pere La Chaise ( http://www.pere-lachaise.com/perelachaise.htm ) Jim Morisson from the Doors lies here.... And indeed a truly a fitting memorial to one's time on earth.
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Post by Patrick Mackle » Sun May 25, 2008 1:33 pm

I gather that you want to encase the gold in the same way. Size is the greatest issue. A Roman paperweight or goblet can be easily encased in a thin layer of glass. A glass monolith, not so easy. You could possibly apply your metals/gold, then spray or sift on a layer of fine glass frit and fire and fuse it on.
Maybe you could make a vitreous decal that has a fritted top layer that would fuse to the glass.
Also, the photo you posted appears to have a very dense gold layer, but I would bet that if it was photographed against the light from behind, it would show up as a translucent purple, just as gold leafing would until it is backed up with paint.
I would be totally interested in acquiring the techniques that the ancients used and adapting them into special pieces. My brain is loaded with crazy out-of-the-box ideas for glass treatments, its just a matter of funds and a direction. These last few weeks I've been thinking of beginning a glass decorating college, and just how to get the word out.
Do you have any sites of the glass monument companies in your local?
Pat

PS: Do you have a Skype address?

erik winkler
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Post by erik winkler » Sun May 25, 2008 1:41 pm

Hello Pat,

I just want to point out that i have a big brain, but zip experience. In other words: "I know a lot, but never done it".
I am installing skype right now, and will look for some local glass- and tombstone worker sites for you.
Be back in a few minutes. Would love to brainstrom about used and to-use techniques. If you need any tranlation from Dutch, German, (little) Spanish or (little) French i can help there.

Erik
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Post by erik winkler » Sun May 25, 2008 1:54 pm

A few sites:

http://www.artiverre.nl
http://www.artemotions.nl/templates/dis ... ge_id=1491
http://www.glazeniers-glaskunst.nl/frame%20funeraal.htm
http://www.glaswerk-aldtsjerk.nl/grafmonument.htm
http://www.denhollandsche.nl/?p=view/ge ... enten-glas
http://www.grafsteenadvies.nl/index.php ... +en+metaal

There are lots more...
Maybe for you there are some inspiring objects to be seen on these sites, but as i am used to these styles the first excitement bug is gone and for me that is not a good sign for eternal beauty, wich glue-chipped gilded or silvered tombstones will do...

My skype name is erikwinkler or Erik Winkler
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Post by Roderick Treece » Sun May 25, 2008 1:59 pm

Erik,

Some do ,some know and alot don't know or do anthing!So keep going.Get skipe and e-mail me for the skipe address.



Roderick

erik winkler
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Post by erik winkler » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:07 pm

Patrick,

The things you said on Skype intreged me, so i looked up the physics of the vapourising temperature of gold and the melting point of glass.

Meltingpoint of gold: 1062 °C = 1832 °F
Vapourisingpoint of gold: 2000 °C = 3632 °F

Meltingpoint of glass: 727 °C = 1340 °F

So i would reason that the gold on the aplication will not vapourise and turn into a purple color when melted glass is poured on the treated glue-chipped and gilded glass piece. It is just a matter of keeping the temperature of the glas between 760 °C (1400 °F) and 927 °C (1700 °F).

The only thing, like you said, to keep in mind is how you applicated the gold on the glass. Gelatine(water) will burn away at this temperature and leave a dirty mess. But i think if you would use Angelgilding, there are only pure gold molecules and there will be nothing to burn or dissintegrate... so the gold and the glas will keep there beautifull lustre.

What do you think of this theory? Is it possible to try this in practice?

Erik
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Post by erik winkler » Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:45 am

Pat,

Further on i want to show you this piece of glass made around 1930-1940 applicated with gold.

Image
c.1930-1940s Art Deco Bohemian Moser art glass champagne or sherbet stem goblet.

Even though there is some damage on the gold i think 60-70 years of endurance is a great start for a gilded tombstone.
Can you even imagine how it will hold when using a good Varnish or other form of coating?

Also i saw this site where gold is applicated in molten glass: http://www.gilding.net/p_new1.html
Maybe Frances Federer could tell us something more about the used technique? Does anybody have some contact with her?...
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Gold on Glass

Post by erik winkler » Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:07 pm

Here is a good video wich shows how to adhere gold on glass for a long period outside.

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=c6NrhF5fbC8

And the earlier posted object:
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=ALNMn6DGQJg
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Re: Glass Tombstones

Post by erik winkler » Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:33 pm

Remember this post?....

The idea haunted me for 2 years now and with a little luck I will have two testpieces on friday.
One with a mica etching and one with a glue chipping surface. Gilded and/or silvered.
The pieces should be able to remain in perfect condition outside in rain, wind, freezing and cooking temperatures for 30 years.

Wouldn't that be great?!

Erik
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Re: Glass Tombstones

Post by Patrick Mackle » Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:42 pm

Erik,
Have you found a suitable coating to protect the decorated areas?
Or would the etching be laminated between the glass?
Pat

erik winkler
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Re: Glass Tombstones

Post by erik winkler » Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:28 pm

I will email you Pat
Last edited by erik winkler on Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Glass Tombstones

Post by Patrick Mackle » Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:42 pm

Will you be laminating with your own UV cure laminating liquid in house or sending it out to a local laminating company?
Pat

erik winkler
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Re: Glass Tombstones

Post by erik winkler » Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:47 pm

I can do it myself.

Erik
Last edited by erik winkler on Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Glass Tombstones

Post by Patrick Mackle » Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:14 pm

I believe there is a difference in the chemistry for "gluing" and the chemistry of "laminating".
I was repairing a crack in my 1981 Ford truck's windshield and the UV glue bottle leaked a few drops onto the fender. It immediately dissolved and blistered the solvent based factory enamel paint where it dropped. Hopefully you will be shown materials that will not damage the decorations on your glass.
I believe laminating materials my be safer, but new products are constantly being developed.
Pat

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Re: Glass Tombstones

Post by erik winkler » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:27 am

I just placed this glass tombstone on the grave of my beloved mother.

When I first saw and worked with the decorative glass techniques, years ago, I thought that it would be a great medium to use for very special places like headstones on graves.
For years I have been experimenting to saveguard the delicate silver and gold leaf which will be out in the open and rainy air for more then 50 years.
After many many many tests and failures I have succeeded in getting this very important problem solved.

The style is very tempered and clean, because my mother told me, just before she died, to have a moderate and not over-the-top design and excecution.
This was maybe the hardest part, since you can imagine only the best and most elaborate would be enough for mum, in my opinion.

Here is a little selection of the process of making this glass tombstone.
I hope you enjoy them, just as I am sure my mother would have.
1.jpg
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Last edited by erik winkler on Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Glass Tombstones

Post by erik winkler » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:53 am

And some more photo's:
8.JPG
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9.JPG
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12.JPG
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13.JPG
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14 Rear side of the glass.JPG
14 Rear side of the glass.JPG (98.04 KiB) Viewed 9230 times
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Re: Glass Tombstones

Post by erik winkler » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:56 am

And the last one:
15.JPG
15.JPG (121.11 KiB) Viewed 9226 times
Last edited by erik winkler on Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ron Berlier
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Re: Glass Tombstones

Post by Ron Berlier » Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:46 pm

Simply gorgeous Erik, I'm sure your mum is extremely pleased with your design and craftsmanship. Thank you for taking the time to share your process -
Ron Berlier
Wherever I go, there I am.

pat mackle
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Re: Glass Tombstones

Post by pat mackle » Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:43 pm

Erik,
I feel happy to have met your Mom, if only once. The memory of her face and voice are forever in my mind.
You and your family have made a very fitting place for her to rest. I'm sure that she is very honored
to be placed with beautiful momentos that only your hands and your craft skills could create.
I have to chuckle to myself, thinking that there is some mumbling going on under some neighboring head stones
by the souls at rest around her, and that they are a little bit jealous.
Thank you for sharing these photos. Maybe I will get to visit her site and see this in person.

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Re: Glass Tombstones

Post by Tyler Tim » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:53 pm

Erik, An inspired work... may it last the ages.
Sure I paint thing for my amusement and then offer them for sale. A brushslinger could whither en die from lack of creativity in this plastic town my horse threw a shoe in. :shock:

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Re: Glass Tombstones

Post by Lee Littlewood » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:07 am

Wow - very nice. I especially like the red glow in the center, even if I can't figure out how it works.

The overall look is traditional but a bit different, which maybe describes your mum?

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Re: Glass Tombstones

Post by erik winkler » Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:08 am

Exactly Lee.
She liked the techniques I used making decorative glass panels, but rather appreciate the more tempered style with only minute details.
This panel I made was one of here favourites Silvered Vines and was the base of which I made the design.
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