Non-Pounce Patterns

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Jill Marie Welsh
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:40 am
Location: Butler, PA USA

Non-Pounce Patterns

Post by Jill Marie Welsh » Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:23 am

I do use pounce patterns, done the old way. I don't have an Electro-Pounce and that is probably a good thing, because I would look like Phyllis Diller! I also like to project, but sometimes that is not an option.

I learned this method from my Scottish friend Catherine Foster. It can be nice if you dislike the mess of chalk or graphite associated with normal pouncing.

First, draw your pattern, then go over it with a Sharpie marker so that your lines bleed thru to the other side of the paper. If using a plotter, pen-plot and go over the pen lines with a Sharpie. Then, go over the lines on the back of the pattern with a Stabilo pencil, using a color that will show up against your sign background. I have pen-plotted in reverse, but that makes it hard to see where the pattern will go. The Stabilo lines must be on the back of the pattern.

After you have your pattern all registered on your panel, make a few tic marks in the corners with a regular grease pencil, then remove it. (these can be rubbed off later)Then lightly spritz the substrate with plain old water (I've used Windex or Rapid Tac as well) Make sure to use a light even coat of fluid. Then replace your pattern, Stabilo-side-down, on your substrate. Squeegee or simply rub with your hands, transferring the Stabilo to the background.

The pattern will dry and can be re-used. You will get a good transfer that is paintable, instead of a big dusty mess and black mucus when you blow your nose. I can see the Stabilo easier than those tiny little dots from a pounce pattern, too. It may take a few tries to get it just right, as it can't be too wet or too dry. And of course, this method would only work on a glossy-painted or aluminum background.
Love....Jill :wink:

Roderick Treece
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Post by Roderick Treece » Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:17 pm

Jill,

From your post it sounds like your tecnique is a very traditional one I would suggest looking into a electro pounce.It will save you alot of time.Also I use a plotter when I can which save me from have to pounce anything by hand.

Roderick

Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson » Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:13 pm

Image

Jilli,
If you have never seen it, find some Saral Paper. It is wax free "transfer paper" that works much like carbon paper. It is much less messy than traditional carbon paper. I looked over Dick Blick's site and they have it in 12.5" wide rolls. It is probably available somewhere in larger sheets.

You'd save quite a bit of time drawing, redrawing and redrawing using this one step material.

You can usually find the smaller rolls at any good craft store or art supply store. Some sign supply shops might carry it.

http://www.dickblick.com/categories/transferpapers/

Worth trying!
Mike
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
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Darryl Gomes
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Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:04 pm
Location: Underwood, Ontario Canada

Post by Darryl Gomes » Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:19 pm

I have seen another method used with photocopies, but can't quite remember it all. Maybe somebody else will remember.

Make your photocopy in reserse, lay the copy toner side down on your substrate and wipe the back with.....naptha? alcohol? mineral spirits? can't remember, but it transfers the toner to the substrate. This can be used a few times as well before it wears out. I would only use this for cutting out pieces and not painting as you would be painting over the toner. It works good to transfer to vinyl for those one off, hand cut jobs in paint mask or sandblast mask.

Darryl
Darryl Gomes
Underwood Ontario

Catharine C. Kennedy
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Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 5:28 am
Location: Chatham Center, NY

Post by Catharine C. Kennedy » Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:39 am

Lacquer thinner- again you have to practice a few times to find what is "not too wet"... good for carving rather than painting.
Catharine C. Kennedy
Chatham Center, NY

Jill Marie Welsh
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:40 am
Location: Butler, PA USA

Post by Jill Marie Welsh » Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:08 am

:wink:
Thanks for the replies!
Roderick, I would kill myself with an Electro-Pounce, for I am very clumsy.
I did use one @ Mike Meyer's place long ago, and it both terrified and impressed me.
I also don't like all the dust from pouncing.
Mike, I'm gonna find some of that Saral stuff! I just dread the trip to Pittsbugh.
Love....jill

Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson » Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:50 am

Jilli,
Dick Blick sells by mail order, plus they have a big store somewhere. Check out the link. Shipping costs would be nothing compared to gasoline.

Mike Jackson
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons

Danny Baronian
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Post by Danny Baronian » Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:09 am

Jill,

Make a pen plot in reverse on white paper, position over your sign image down, tape in position , lightly spritz with windex and wipe over your lines. The lines will transfer to the substrate. SignIt used this method on their project panels at the Walldog meet in Canada and it worked quite well.

I think you'd get used to the electro pounce, but if you didn't you could at least enjoy watching other first time users discover it's uses. I'm sure Mike Meyers didn't just set you up and walk away.

Danny
Danny Baronian
Baronian Mfg.
CNC Routing & Fabrication
http://www.baronian.com

Bill Cosharek
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Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:33 am

Post by Bill Cosharek » Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:43 am

Jill,
Try Utrecht, on the Southside of Pittsburgh. I believe they are somewhere on East Carson Street. I have ordered from them in the past but can't seem to find a catalog handy. It used to cost $6 per roll. Just checked and their website is at www.utrechtart.com and if you click on the store location page, you'll see exactly where they are - complete with phone #.

Jill Marie Welsh
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:40 am
Location: Butler, PA USA

Post by Jill Marie Welsh » Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:07 am

Thanks again.
Looking at that Dick Blick site put me in mind of my art school days...
oh the memories! Now I'm feeling all creative.
Am just about to use this method on actual-factual ALL PAINTED signs!
(customer grew up near an old sign painter and loved to watch him work)
Bill, I do know how to find East Carson St. so maybe I'll venture there.
The Saathside is a great place! But not this weekend!
I get to do face painting at the Mars Applefest on Saturday.
Danny, Mike didn't teach me, he was too busy hosting.
Kurt Gaber very kindly taught me the Electro-Pounce shuffle.
Gotta go fire up the old 4E and do some pen-plotting.
Love....Jill :wink:

Steve Racz
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Location: Pitman, NJ
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Post by Steve Racz » Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:22 pm

Quill Hair and Ferrule caries Saral (qhfonline.com) in 5 colors.

I've used it for years and it works great. Only problem is it comes in 12" wide sheets (maybe someone has a wider sheet per an earlier post) so you have to move it if you are doing a big pattern.

On bare wood you have to press a little hard so the marks show.

Also, like carbon paper, you can use it over and over.

Thanks,
Steve
Steve Racz
Racz's Handcarved Signs
Pitman, NJ 08071-1809

rove gratz
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Location: Macon, GA
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Post by rove gratz » Sun Oct 17, 2004 8:28 am

I have made my own Saral like paper by rubbing rubber cement thinner over the paper, then sprinkling powdered graphite all over and rubbing until it is evenly distributed.

Let it dry and you are ready. I don't know how many of you folks still use pencil pointers, but the graphite from them is perfect.

This is perfect if you need larger transfer paper than the commercially avilable stuff.
Rove Gratz
Macon, GA

Guest

transferring pattern to sandblast matt

Post by Guest » Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:28 am

What works the best to transfer your pattern to the rubber sandblast matt?
I just now figured out it is not best to plotter cut the biggest parts of the sign, lot easier to hand cut.

I use to transfer patterns to wood all the time in vacuum forming sign faces. We would just use a sharpie in the plotter and reverse cut then put the pattern on the MDF and wipe with Alcohol and it would transfer a great line to the wood for cutting out...just don't know how it will work on rubber.

Thanks
Steve Gustine
S&H Wholesale Signs
OK City,OK

Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson » Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:00 pm

Steve,
On rubber sandblast stencil, a regular pounce pattern works fine.

You might also want to read some info on this subject in this thread:
viewtopic.php?t=138
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons

Guest

pouncing

Post by Guest » Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:02 pm

Thanks Mike,

I will either get an electric pounce and setup a metal easle or make a icepick attachment for my plotter, it has a pounce mode, I just never spent $300 for the glorified ice pick attachment.
I made one one time with a wooden dowel and cemented it into a wooden dowel. I worked well, I just didn't need pounce patterns at the time...now I do so I will have to make another one.

One the Anchor resist, if I hand cut all the big stuff , but have some intricate things I would like to cut on the plotter if I located where I want the small details and say cut a block of the resist with the copy and place it on the sign ontop the main resist. I will then cutout the block on the sign and insert the new block with the plotter cut copy or details. What is best to patch the lines where the two meet...duct tape? I am afraid the abrasive will go into the cracks. But maybe it won't be a problem, because now that I think about it the background will be peeled away anyway so it probably won't matter. Guess I am getting confuse with progressive sand carving on glass.

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