Aura Paints - Tony?

[Kelly Thorson]

I'm about to start a large mural project using Benjamin Moore Aura paints on Aluply primed with Benjamin Moore Fresh Start. They are getting pretty high reviews here for their coverage and fade resistance.
Tony I know you used them on your last mural and I was wondering if you had any feedback. I searched your thread and it sounds as though you really liked them, and that they had good flow, coverage and blending. I'm wondering how they will perform on the slicker surface. The mural is an industrial one and will be done in a stylized manner which will include sponging and ragging textures. Did you try spraying with them? Is clean up any harder than other acrylic latex? Any tips or tricks you can share would be appreciated!

[Tony Segale]

well, Kelly, you searched my thread... you've already seen everything I did with 'em, no sense hidin' it now.
truth is, I wouldn't want to paint with someone who didn't want to use Aura.
Single stroke coverage ( in most cases), self priming, but on top of Fresh Start primer, your grandkids might not have a job repaintin 'em.
Fresh Start on enamel baked aluminum has no adhesion problems.

Use any technique you want, just paint the mural.

one word of caution, do not mix Ben Moore Auras with any other Ben Moore exterior latex...
ain't good for yer health.

[Kelly Thorson]

one word of caution, do not mix Ben Moore Auras with any other Ben Moore exterior latex...
ain't good for yer health

I was warned about that by my dealer. Wonder what happens?

In any case I won't try it, I sure don't need any more bad health - two months to get 'er done and I broke two ribs last week.

Oh well, I always did like a challenge.

I did a few experimental pieces and used the Aura on a couple of stucco monument signs and was relieved to find it sprayed OK, that's going to save me loads of rollering ouch! Sure does seem like good stuff, so far my only complaint is that the black is pretty gray!

[joe cieslowski]

Ut Oh......

I've been painting Aura over Ben Moore Moore-glo. My dealer said it was OK.

What is really gonna happen??????

Kelly, the reds do need a base coat primer....or they will never cover.

Joe,

[Tony Segale]

perhaps, I didn't make myself clear...
paint aura over ben moore moor-glo, everything will be muy bueno.

but, you cannot mix aura with moorglo in the same can they are made from two different bases.
also, you cannot tint aura with universal tint colors, like you can add to the moor-glo.

as for the reds, I did lay a single prime coat on a year old stucco wall, and finished with a single coat of an aura red
( see sacramento street mural). Kelly, with your base coat of 'fresh start', again, everything should be muy bueno.

I have heard of some complaints working with this or other latex paints, coverage issues...
am I doing something wrong? I have never had that problem...never with Benjamin Moore.
I do paint one coat, fast.... just like it was one-shot.
If there is a coverage issue, fine. Let it dry. there's no reason to hurry.
when it is dry, you can lay the second pass faster than the first.
So far, I've been fast enough.

[joe cieslowski]

WHEW!!!!

Thanks Tony!

So, if you can't use universal tint colors do you need to have a dozen cans of basic colors to do a rendering.....aka "fine art" painting?

I have had the same results with single coat colors covering well. BTW, at our last meet, I asked a veteran pin striper to try the aura ( and Macks acrylic/laytex outliners). He was very impressed. I'm sure the More-glo would not "work" as well.

Kelly, the first time I had them mix the black it did come out quite grey and I complained....he looked at the mix formula and it had white in it.....he took the white out of the mix and it came out much much better.

Thanks.....I really love this stuff. It really has great selling points.

Joe

[Mark Summers]

Kelly,
You said a slicker surface. You might want to elaborate on what
kind of surface you are talking about.
Mark

[Kelly Thorson]

Well I guess I'll either double coat the red or I won't.
I've got two gallons of black mixed up here, Joe, I don't know if they would replace them for me or not, I guess I can give it a try.
Mark, I'm painting on aluminum composite panels. That is a lot different than painting on a rough wall and I like my paint to have a bit of a drag to it in a smooth surface. It seems to pull more paint off the brush and cover better. The Fresh Start primer doesn't have a great deal of tooth. Sometimes working with paints with good "flow" on a really smooth surface can be trying as they just "slide" around. I'd love to throw a handful of sand in my primer.

[Mark Summers]

A couple thoughts Kelly. An aluminum composite panel. I'm guessing
like a Di-Bond type panel? How big is your mural?
My first thoughts with what you've said is another primer.
XIM has a water based UMA in white and their solvent based 400 white
which when applied with a roller might just give you some of those
otherwise undesireable bubbles for the drag. UMA has excellent adhesion.
Will even adhere to dried enamel with no problem. I'm sure the 400 will
do the same.
Another thought for the acrylics is Golden fluid acrylics (dickblick.com)
Excellent color retention for outdoors. You might look at Golden Acrylics
web site. Might not be what you are looking for if this is a large mural.
I would top the Golden fluid acrylics with Ronan Aquathane UV, flat or
gloss or mix. A good marriage with Golden and Ronan. I live at 9000 ft.
and UV is intense. Really holds up.
A few thoughts.

Mark

[Kelly Thorson]

Mark the mural consists of 11 panels (16'x16', 12'x12', 8'x16', 8'x12' etc). It's going to take a fair amount of paint... I'm committed to the Aura line now and am somewhat reluctant to experiment with different primers, so I think I'll have to make this combo work. With the broken ribs the idea of rollering primer on over 40 panels is formidable! It is a bit hard to keep the Aura from skimming the surface, especially with "texturizing" type rollers, which I am hoping to make use of. They just want to slide on the surface rather than roll.

I spoke my dealer in regards to the black and he said that the tint used is just straight black and he would not be able to get a darker one. He also said that all the colours are tinted now (no more standard shelf colours). He said there was nothing I could add to make them stickier, although I he didn't anticipate a problem with adding some fine sand into the Fresh Start... but then I'm back to rolling on the primer.

[joe cieslowski]

Kelly.....here is the formula in their putter for black. It comes out charcoal grey, IMO.

W 3 13.5 (this is white)
S 1 2x28 (this is black)
W 1 2.75
M 1 8

Here is the black that they custom mixed for me. This IS black.

S1 4x 16.8125
W1 0x 4.6875
R1 0x 9.375
Y1 0x 1.000

The second number is the shots of tint.

They can make black.





Joe

[joe cieslowski]

Kelly,

Here is an idea for getting some grab with your roller.....

Take the panels outside in the sun to warm them up.....then start rolling....the first coatings will start to dry and get tacky and as you go over the area again more paint will stick. Because my panels are small, I can do it indoors with an overhead quartz heater to warm the surfaces.....werks good for me.

Joe

[Kelly Thorson]

Thanks Joe,
I'll print that formula out and take it in with me when I go to get the extender.
I did find that if I use the textured rollers when the paint is just past tacky that they grabbed OK - That breaks the 4 hour to recoat rule, what does that mean to me - a possibility of blistering?

[joe cieslowski]

If the first pass doesn't "dry" it's still the first coat.....imo

I do it and it goes right out into the hot sun....never a blister (for me )

Joe

[Kelly Thorson]

Update:

Confident from the results of my experiments with Dibond and Fresh Start Acrylic Primer, I primed 12 panels of AluPly using the BM Fresh Start, assuming that I would have a indestructable bond - not even close.

Thinking the "tinted" Fresh Start was the culprit (it used a deep base) I ran a samples of the thinned FS, straight from the can FS, thinned tinted FS and straight from the can tinted FS on Omega Bond, which is the brand of the rest of the panels I will be using. Although the adhesion of the tinted is slightly less than that of the white, I believe it has more to do with the slower drying time of deep bases. There is absolurtely no scratching this off! The Aura, Fresh Start and panel finish have melded, persistance removes all three layers to the aluminum finish. So my conclusion is the AluPly has some different makeup on the surface. Who'd have thunk...now what to do with 12 "scratchable" panels. I guess I'll deal with them once this project is done.

Just for the record, after testing it, I wouldn't trust Aura paints direct on any of the above aluminum composites.

[Tony Segale]

I really, really don't understand....

Fresh Start, the green label? (the red label is better for redwood and cedar to prevent bleeding of the wood stain)

Is Aluply different from baked enamel aluminum panels or dibond? I've had nothing but complete success with these two substrates.

Tell me Mrs. Thorson, what's your game?

[Kelly Thorson]

Well my sales bill says Aluply, but the backing has alucobest printed on it. I don't have the protective sheets anymore, but I think they said Aluply as well. If you google it you get a foreign site. But, yes, they are a composite panel like Dibond. I also used one sheet of Komalu and it seems to have good adherance.
On the positive side, a day later (it's been about a week since they were painted) they seem to be harder to scratch.
I stripped them of their protective sheets and scuffed them about ten days before they were painted so outgassing shouldn't be a factor.
I just thought it would be a good caution for others not to assume that if it looks and smells like Dibond, that it will act like Dibond.