Commonwealth Varnish

[Roderick Treece]

It appears that someone may have purchased Commonwealth Varnish. After doing a shearch for " Fibroseal I happened upon these links that don't seem to be working .

http://commonwealthvarnish.com/
Commonwealth Clear Fibroseal
Note: Commonwealth Varnish Company is under new ownership and this site is ...
commonwealthvarnish.com/cf.html

Commonwealth Venice Japan Gold Size
Note: Commonwealth Varnish Company is under new ownership and this site is ...
commonwealthvarnish.com/vjgs.html

commonwealth unemployment benefit file for at commonwealthvarnish.com
commonwealth unemployment benefit file for http delta government foreclosure auction.
commonwealthvarnish.com/ - Cached

????????????????????????????

Roderick

[Danny Baronian]

Hi Rod,

the rights to Commonwealth were sold by the heirs of Esoteric Sign Supply to an individual that didn't want to see the name vanish.

The company formulating the varnish required a $ 5000 minimum order about 10 years ago.

The last I heard about Commonwealth was about a year ago when the rights were sold, but never any news of ordering product for resale.

Looks like all your links are dead.

Danny

[erik winkler]

Hello Guys,

For two years now I read about this Commonwealth Quick Rubbing Varnish and Window Spar Varnish.
Since I never used it, I am in total dark here.
What is so great about this stuff? And where exactly do you use it for?
If it is so perfect I guess I will be on the order list also....

Crazy Dutchman with a full stock cabinet and an empty wallet.

[Roderick Treece]

Robert,
So would I be correct in assuming that you own it now or are you remaking it using the same formulas but not the name ? I would be very interested in purchasing ,
Quick Rubbing Varnish
Window Spar Varnish
And my all time favorite Fibroseal

Thanks
Roderick

[Bill Masters]

Robert,
I would also like to purchase the same as Rod.
Thanks Bill.

[David Slade]

Robert,
You would be doing a good service to lot of people! Thank you !

I would be interested too as it becomes available.

For us international folk, shipping is a big concern. I have had several packages lost or stolen by the USPS and we are now unable to ship most liquids by air. That was my main reason for finding local equivalents, as mentioned in the book translations post. I am not in the sign business in a big way now but plan on doing more work in a couple of years. A lost package of needed supplies at that stage could be a real headache.

Just something to think about as you go into this new venture.

[Leo Calleros]

I definitely, too, am very interested in this varnish.

[DAVE SMITH]

Robert kindly sent me some quick rubbing varnish a few months back but I have not used it yet.
Would be great to have an on going supply of all these varnishes.
Dave

[Aaron Taylor]

I would be very interested in purchasing some as well Robert.

[Roderick Treece]

While I am very happy to hear that the products we have enjoyed for years may be available in one form or another that wasn't my original question.
Commonwealth Varnish co. was originally owned by the Rev. Cecil Sanders. I had always assumed that when Rick started selling it that he had purchased the name and formulas from the Rev. Cecil Sanders. Now that Rick has passed and we are not able to buy " Commonwealth" labled products, who is it that may have purchased the name ?
We do know that someone has purchased the domain name commonwealthvarnish.com , but anybody can do that.

Just curious I guess.

Roderick
www.customglasssigns.com

[Kent Smith]

The original Commonwealth Paint and Varnish Company was located in northern Indiana. They developed a line of varnish additives used by both sign makers and house painters including Fibroseal, Florence and Venice Japan, Brilliant Gold Size, Floor Spar, Bulletin Spar, Water White Spar, Quick Rubbing, Pale Coach and Fibroseal Black. They operated from the early 1800's until the late 1960's as I remember. They were sold to Hooker Glass & Paint Mfg. Co. in Chicago who also produced a line of Bulletin Colors. I am not certain about the exact dates but when Hooker discovered that there was not a huge volume in sales, they sold the fomulas to Cecil Sanders, who re-established the Commonwealth name. He had me help him with a few of the labels which had been lost, especially including the directions for use. Rick and I met with Cecil and his wife when we were in Pheasant Run for the Sign Ideas conferece, of which Cecil was a major sponsor. He shared with us his failing health situation and Rick worked out a deal with him to continue the Commonwealth line, the details of which I don't know. Under Rick, we re-created the Bulletin Spar formula and label, using my old containers and my contacts through Chromatic for fomula. Dave Glawson sold the formulas and remaining Commonwealth assets to Frank Betoulaud. Frank contacted me and a few others to get an idea of the market and was quite surprised to discover that he was looking at a sales potential of hundreds of pints rather than thousands of gallons of the products. He only acquired the formulas for Clear Fibroseal, WW Window Spar, and Quick Rubbing. As of Nov 12, 2007 he was to be receiving test samples and sending some to me and a few others which never happened. The last I heard from him was on Dec 20, 2007 that he was still struggling with determining what the market potential for the products actually is or was. After that, his email is returned and the phone is disconnected or "no longer in service".

[erik winkler]

Well Kent that is nice and clear!
As I see it, you definatly have a copy of the formula's, otherwise Dave Glawson and since this will not be a mayor deal (just hundreds of pints), why don't you make something 'allmost' exactly like the old stuff and name it:
1. Letterhead Fibroseal
2. Letterhead Florence
3. Letterhead Venice Japan
4. Letterhead Brilliant Gold Size
5. Letterhead Floor Spar
6. Letterhead Bulletin Spar
7. Letterhead Water White Spar
8. Letterhead Quick Rubbing
9. Letterhead Pale Coach
10. Letterhead Fibroseal Black

For two years now I am on this forum, for two years now I hear stories about the good ole' days, the good old stuf, the lead, the this and the that.
And allways the questions supreme: Where can I buy this and where can I order that?

To be honoust, and I know I will undeliberaty kick someone to the knees and will get some good but hard advise from Mike, stop all this and just remake the stuff we all want!
And if someone else will not make it for us, Kent why don't you do it for your self and your paying Letterhead friends?
You are the paint man on this forum so do what you do best and make it.
I trust your results!

Erik

[Kent Smith]

The problem I have is that I never did, nor do I have the formulae. That was Rick's deal and the only part I played was getting him in contact with a resin supplier through Chromatic for the bulletin spar. He told me later that they had gone out of business (which I knew) but he found one "close to home" he could use. He never had the occaison to share with me who that was. While I understand some of the basics, without an acutal formula, it would be difficult to accomplish. The enamels we made at Chromatic used a resin that was already formulated so making paint was more batching than chemical formulation. The only varnish I made here was Damar for embossing, which Ron Purcell is now making. I know he has been working with resin formulators to replicate some of the varnishes we use and has an overcoat version for sealing glass gold so far. (Letterheadsignsupply.com) The reality is that this process is VERY expensive with suppliers wanting guarantees of 1000 gallon batches or full up front costs to develop a formula. I have heard recently those costs to be as high as $10,000 to $20,000, with experimentation, aging and regulations to consider.

[Larry White]

I sure could go for somethin'...

Nice gallon of Fibroseal sounds really, really nice right about now.

I'm plum out! ...and I like to mix it with my Japan colors.

So you order that sucker right up!

-Aho!

[David Slade]

Robert,
Minimum order is 20gallons or 1 quart?? Is 1 quart each of quick rubbing and fibroseal possible?

Should we e-mail you at drmwvr@gmail.com about payment, shipping addresses and all that?


Erik,
Great plan, but it's missing one thing... A deep pocketed, very committed financier!
Or is that your roll in this?!?

[erik winkler]

Erik,
Great plan, but it's missing one thing... A deep pocketed, very committed financier!
Or is that your roll in this?!?

I am afraid I am not....
These last 2 years I allready invested too much money in the Letterhead thing.
I can not afford investments. I have commited myself to pay for Czech Republic visit and some other nice things.

The main problem now is to get those formulas.

[Kent Smith]

I forgot to mention for those in need, Ronan still makes a quick rubbing varnish which has always been a good quality varnish. The last can I have is quite a bit more pale than Commonwealth, which can be an advantage.

[Larry White]

Kent-
I notice that the Clear Fibroseal has a distinctively different odor than the other varnishes.
Do you know what the differences are between it and the other varnishes?
As I recall, Rick said that Fibroseal could be used as a substitute for most of the other varnishes.
I know he did recommend it as an additive to Japan Color.

Thanks,
Larry

[Kent Smith]

Good nose Larry. The reason for the different odor is that as a mixing varnish which is already relatively thin, it only has the batching solvent (Naphtha blend), not the tail solvent (mineral spirits). Tail solvent is added to enamels and varnishes after the batch is complete to bring them to the viscosity intended for the product. Fibroseal is much closer to a pure resin which would be used as a base for making paints and varnishes, except for being thin. The proof of it's universiality is that many paint companies have made a mixing varnish for enamels and screen print inks, such as 1Shot Liquiseal.

The original description is also a hint of the quality of the material: "This famous old product has long been a favorite with sign artists and finishers. It takes the place of all quick drying mixing varnishes. Mixes perfectly with delicate colors. Clear Fibroseal is thin in body, flows free and dries in 30 minutes. Clear Fibroseal added to all undercoats and colors is superior to Japans and regular mixing varnishes. Its extreme durability adds greater life to colors. All colors should contain a liveral portion of Fibroseal as the thinner in order to secure the best results."

I understand from an 80+ year old friend who was a professional finisher (now we just call them house painters) that he always used this type of mixing varnish with oils or Japans when doing faux finishing and fine hardwood varnishing. He learned to use Fibroseal in apprenticeship so it was not just for signs. He confirms this although his father had a sign shop in London and was familiar with mixing varnish as well.

[David Slade]

Robert recently told me there wasn't much interest in the fibroseal from the members. He said he IS still going forward with the Fibroseal project anyway.

I was wondering: How much Clear Fibroseal do YOU use in a year?

[Kent Smith]

I maybe use a pint a year these days.

[Larry White]

Hey Kent, I've always liked to use the Clear Fibroseal as an additive to Japan Color in my glass sign work. Unfortunately, I have run out and have been using Window Spar varnish. Do you know of a source for the Fibroseal?

Another trick that Rick taught me was to mix a bit of Black Fibroseal into the clear Fibroseal, making a transparent black. This could then be airbrushed in a fade at the ends of a panel or banner shape and when dry, blocked in with a single color, yielding a blended color.

Anyone know if Robert was going to obtain any Fibroseal?

-Aho!

[Kent Smith]

Hi Larry. Any type of mixing varnish will work in Japan or as an additive to enamels. Quick Rubbing is also a good medium for Japan. I have made my own by reducing spar varnish. As mentioned on another thread, there are real spars out there, mostly in the boat business. If you can find one without urethane, that would be best. Sign Finishing Clear is an alkyd varnish which is made to "finish" oil colors and therefore is a mixing varnish. I needs some reduction too for my taste.

[Patrick Mackle]

Wow Robert,
After reading about your energy in these projects, my mind pulled up memories of Micky as the sorcerer in Fantasia where he is standing
on a jutting spire and conducting all the activity below with his wand.
Pat

[erik winkler]

While I was reading this I thought of: I heard he had a hook on his foot....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h73CIif-5n0
I am still interested in the fibroseal and all the other stuff also.