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This is an interactive Bulletin Board on the topics of Sign making, design, fabrication, History, old Books and of coarse Letterheads, Keepers of the craft. The Hand Lettering Forum features links to resources, sign art history, techniques, and artists profiles. Learn more about Letterheads at https://theletterheads.com. Below you'll see Mchat has been added as a live communication portal for trial, and the Main forum Links are listed below.
Chocolate Shop in Deventer Netherlands
Moderators: Ron Percell, Mike Jackson, Danny Baronian
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Chocolate Shop in Deventer Netherlands
A nice shopfront in the old Hanse (trade) city of Deventer in the Netherlands.
It used to be a Chocolate shop, but now, as you can see, a clothes shop.
Thankfully the owner appreciates the quality work and did not remove the glasswork. I will put the location on the map.
Erik
It used to be a Chocolate shop, but now, as you can see, a clothes shop.
Thankfully the owner appreciates the quality work and did not remove the glasswork. I will put the location on the map.
Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
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- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:28 am
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Re: Chocolate Shop in Deventer Netherlands
Lovely piece. Thanks for posting it.
The word "Ringers" appears to be a different colour to the other words. Also, I'm trying to work out how they have achieved the shade effect. Both the main letter and the shade seem to be bright (mirror) finish. Maybe it's just a trick of the camera. Is the shade a matt finish?
As soon as you see it, it's obviously European. This made me wonder why. Why it's different to the work in Australia.
After thinking about that, I realize why (apart from the obvious spelling difference of chocolate).
First, the panel is angled. I can't recall ever seeing a glass panel on an angle like this. Also, the shopfronts here may have nice signs on transom glass, but they are upper sections of the display windows. This one is actually a facade to the structural transom. Very rare here.
Secondly. the beautiful lattice-like treatment of the upper window panels. I haven't seen that here either.
The word "Ringers" appears to be a different colour to the other words. Also, I'm trying to work out how they have achieved the shade effect. Both the main letter and the shade seem to be bright (mirror) finish. Maybe it's just a trick of the camera. Is the shade a matt finish?
As soon as you see it, it's obviously European. This made me wonder why. Why it's different to the work in Australia.
After thinking about that, I realize why (apart from the obvious spelling difference of chocolate).
First, the panel is angled. I can't recall ever seeing a glass panel on an angle like this. Also, the shopfronts here may have nice signs on transom glass, but they are upper sections of the display windows. This one is actually a facade to the structural transom. Very rare here.
Secondly. the beautiful lattice-like treatment of the upper window panels. I haven't seen that here either.
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Re: Chocolate Shop in Deventer Netherlands
Bruce,
All the letters have a mat gilded center and a bright mirror outline and shade.
I believe both effects are done in the same shade of gold.
In England a lot of shopfronts are placed on an angle and when working with glass this gives an extra nice effect.
Erik
All the letters have a mat gilded center and a bright mirror outline and shade.
I believe both effects are done in the same shade of gold.
In England a lot of shopfronts are placed on an angle and when working with glass this gives an extra nice effect.
Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
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- Posts: 478
- Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:21 am
- Location: Monrovia, Ca.
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Re: Chocolate Shop in Deventer Netherlands
Could it be that they angle the signs downward because the shop itself is raised up off of street level due to water levels?
Maybe also by angling them downward, there is less bright "sky" reflected on the front glass surface which outshines the gold letters.
PS: there were also "Ringers" chocolate tins amongst others on display at the Trade Museum in Deventer.
Maybe also by angling them downward, there is less bright "sky" reflected on the front glass surface which outshines the gold letters.
PS: there were also "Ringers" chocolate tins amongst others on display at the Trade Museum in Deventer.
Last edited by Patrick Mackle on Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chocolate Shop in Deventer Netherlands
The sky light should be the reason Pat.
And if I recollect, you saw this sign when we where traveling through Nederland.
Erik
And if I recollect, you saw this sign when we where traveling through Nederland.
Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
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- Posts: 478
- Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:21 am
- Location: Monrovia, Ca.
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Re: Chocolate Shop in Deventer Netherlands
Yes, we both took photos of the sign and in looking at my photos, I actually took mine at a closer range which shows the gold details as matte with bright outlines as you said.
I truly had a great time over there! So much to see!
Pat
I truly had a great time over there! So much to see!
Pat
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Re: Chocolate Shop in Deventer Netherlands
thanks. that makes sense.
There is just so much happening in the reflection, especially in "ringers", it didn't look to me like the letters are matt finish.
Reflections can work for or against a sign, that's for sure. I did a small job a few weeks ago. Black outline/Bright outer/matt centre. Fairly standard combination. It was high on the glass and the white underside of the overhanging veranda reflected in it. From most angles, you just couldn't see that it had two finishes...It just looked like a plain gold letter.
Pat, add a close-up photo if you've got one available.
There is just so much happening in the reflection, especially in "ringers", it didn't look to me like the letters are matt finish.
Reflections can work for or against a sign, that's for sure. I did a small job a few weeks ago. Black outline/Bright outer/matt centre. Fairly standard combination. It was high on the glass and the white underside of the overhanging veranda reflected in it. From most angles, you just couldn't see that it had two finishes...It just looked like a plain gold letter.
Pat, add a close-up photo if you've got one available.
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Re: Chocolate Shop in Deventer Netherlands
Here are some photos of that sign and one other in the same matte center/bright outline style.
Note how the chocolate sign which is angled down, has less reflections on it than the right angle sign on the other building.
The chocolate sign has a black painted background, the other is a dark green color.
Pat
P.S. I have just noticed that photos appear here in opposite from the order they are uploaded.
Note how the chocolate sign which is angled down, has less reflections on it than the right angle sign on the other building.
The chocolate sign has a black painted background, the other is a dark green color.
Pat
P.S. I have just noticed that photos appear here in opposite from the order they are uploaded.
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Re: Chocolate Shop in Deventer Netherlands
HI Pat,
in uploading pictures, upload in reverse order. That's always been that way. Don't know if it can be changed, but as everything else is working fine, it's best not to adjust the settings and mess something else up.
Your picture solves the question of the texture in Ringers, though it's been described as matte centers.
I always look at reflections when looking through the lens to see what would cause distractions in order to get a better angle, many times, as in this situation you have no choice, but when you do have a chance either lower or raise the camera angle, moving to the right or left or all four. Or go across the street and stand on a park bench - or whatevers available - for a higher angle, and zoom in on the subject. You'll possibly get some strange looks, but to get a better shot I've never let that bother me.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in your picture to the right of Ringers is a scene in the glass of the background that appears to be either snow, or a lot of irregular white areas on the opposite side of the street behind some trees, that in turn is reflected in the glass.
As most know, glass, gold and any bright shiny objects are the hardest to shoot in an uncontrolled environment. Sometimes shots like these are best taken on overcast days, which this may have been.... but when you're on a trip like this, you take what you have.
Danny
in uploading pictures, upload in reverse order. That's always been that way. Don't know if it can be changed, but as everything else is working fine, it's best not to adjust the settings and mess something else up.
Your picture solves the question of the texture in Ringers, though it's been described as matte centers.
I always look at reflections when looking through the lens to see what would cause distractions in order to get a better angle, many times, as in this situation you have no choice, but when you do have a chance either lower or raise the camera angle, moving to the right or left or all four. Or go across the street and stand on a park bench - or whatevers available - for a higher angle, and zoom in on the subject. You'll possibly get some strange looks, but to get a better shot I've never let that bother me.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in your picture to the right of Ringers is a scene in the glass of the background that appears to be either snow, or a lot of irregular white areas on the opposite side of the street behind some trees, that in turn is reflected in the glass.
As most know, glass, gold and any bright shiny objects are the hardest to shoot in an uncontrolled environment. Sometimes shots like these are best taken on overcast days, which this may have been.... but when you're on a trip like this, you take what you have.
Danny
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Re: Chocolate Shop in Deventer Netherlands
Hi Danny,
Thank you for the tips. You were correct, I shot a lot of these photos on the fly, as well as riding on a bike.
That is why I positioned that reflection between Ringers and Chocolate. There was no snow and I looked closely to determine what
that white reflection was, but I can't make it out.
I took all of my photos with a credit card sized Casio camera for convenience but I would have much rather used a better camera. All in all
that little shirt pocket camera did pretty darn good.
Pat
Thank you for the tips. You were correct, I shot a lot of these photos on the fly, as well as riding on a bike.
That is why I positioned that reflection between Ringers and Chocolate. There was no snow and I looked closely to determine what
that white reflection was, but I can't make it out.
I took all of my photos with a credit card sized Casio camera for convenience but I would have much rather used a better camera. All in all
that little shirt pocket camera did pretty darn good.
Pat
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Re: Chocolate Shop in Deventer Netherlands
thanks for the extra pics.
I still think Ringers looks like it's in lemon gold and bonbons and chocolade in regular gold.
and I think that reflected texture is from the building across the street. It looks like cloth, so maybe it's an awning or blind.
I still think Ringers looks like it's in lemon gold and bonbons and chocolade in regular gold.
and I think that reflected texture is from the building across the street. It looks like cloth, so maybe it's an awning or blind.
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Re: Chocolate Shop in Deventer Netherlands
On the other side is a hallway and some other shops.
I will go to this city this weekend and will take some new snaps to feed your questions.
Erik
I will go to this city this weekend and will take some new snaps to feed your questions.
Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
-
- Posts: 1213
- Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:12 am
- Location: ENGLAND
Re: Chocolate Shop in Deventer Netherlands
It looks like the letters are all coming off the glass due to age and damp getting in.
seen this on alott of old signs where the gold peels back, could be just making it look like a reflection, when the gold which was watergilded comes away it usually turns a matt finish over time.
Dave
seen this on alott of old signs where the gold peels back, could be just making it look like a reflection, when the gold which was watergilded comes away it usually turns a matt finish over time.
Dave
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Re: Chocolate Shop in Deventer Netherlands
I agree, Nice work Erik.