Damar embosing

An interactive section of TheLetterheads.com

Topics include: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

Off Topic Posts may be deleted at the discretion of the web hosts. ABSOLUTELY NO SHARING OF COPYRIGHTED FONTS, CLIP ART, or VIDEOS!

Please take social chit-chat elsewhere!

Moderators: Danny Baronian, Mike Jackson

Post Reply
erik winkler
Posts: 1063
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:48 pm
Location: Amsterdam Netherlands
Contact:

Damar embosing

Post by erik winkler » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:04 am

Thanks to Robert Beverly I was finally able to make the Damar embossing mixture!
Odly enough it looks rather dark in color... :?:
Here is a photo, does this seem correct or will it be to obscure for the gilding that goes over the damar embossing?
Damar embossing mixture.jpg
Damar embossing mixture.jpg (49.94 KiB) Viewed 4941 times

Thanks Robert,
Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu

Roderick Treece
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:04 pm
Location: San deigo Calif
Contact:

Re: Damar embosing

Post by Roderick Treece » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:43 am

Eric,
It should be as clear as possible unless you want your finish to has a tint. What it that you made that from ? It will be great for doing antique aged pieces.

DAVE SMITH
Posts: 1133
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:12 am
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Damar embosing

Post by DAVE SMITH » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:55 am

You sure that is Damar Erik? looks more like something from inside you...
Dave

erik winkler
Posts: 1063
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:48 pm
Location: Amsterdam Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Damar embosing

Post by erik winkler » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:40 am

The quick rubbing varnish made the mixture this dark.

Dave thanks for the comparison.
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu

DAVE SMITH
Posts: 1133
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:12 am
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Damar embosing

Post by DAVE SMITH » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:55 pm

Stop eating those burgers Erik!

Larry White
Posts: 1152
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:18 am
Location: Machine
Contact:

Re: Damar embosing

Post by Larry White » Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:14 pm

Rick Glawson's embossing varnish recipe was 1/3 Damar varnish,
1/3 Bulletin Spar varnish, and 1/3 Resin Gel (an oil painting medium).

That's the mixture I've always used, 'cept for using Window Spar
varnish on occasion in place of the Bulletin Spar.

Brush it on to a moderate thickness, let it set-up, then emboss
the desired pattern. Allow to fully dry, then water gild....sometimes
followed by a surface gild. Sometimes followed by a surface gild of a
different metal, which shows through on the embossed pattern.

I've always mixed it up for immediate use.
That jar otta last a good while! ....or become hard as a rock.......


-Aho!

erik winkler
Posts: 1063
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:48 pm
Location: Amsterdam Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Damar embosing

Post by erik winkler » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:28 pm

Larry,

What about this process you used?:

Image
I surface gilded the backside areas of the ribbon with green verigated leaf, then using embossing varnish (1/3 Quick Rubbing Varnish, 1/3 Damar Varnish, & 1/3 Resin Gel), I tooled in a swirl design into the front areas of the ribbon.

S my question remains: Is quick rubbing varnish allways so dark?
Or should I go for something else when embossing? Like:
1. Bulletin Spar varnish
2. Commonwealth window spar
3. Speed dry UV clear
4. One shot One hour gold size
5. Or any other clear fast drying varnish?

Thanks,
Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu

Mike Jackson
Site Admin
Posts: 1803
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:02 pm
Location: Jackson Hole, WY
Contact:

Re: Damar embosing

Post by Mike Jackson » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:56 pm

http://mileswmathis.com/varn.html

Eric, Check out the link above. I always thought we called it White Damar Varnish? You may have found amber Damar crystals. Also, the link above talks about white beeswax.

Remember to water gild over a Damar center. Applying oil size over an embossed damar area will dissolve the varnish and you will lose your decorative embossing.

M Jackson
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons

Kent Smith
Posts: 559
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:41 pm
Location: Estes Park, CO
Contact:

Re: Damar embosing

Post by Kent Smith » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:47 pm

Most certainly you want the pure white damar crystals, make with pure filtered turps which is also water white. Filter the damar after formulating to rid it of any bark or root particles which can darken the varnish. The best quality quick rubbing is also water white. If the quick rub is amber, then it is too old or has gotten hot or is a phenolic formula which will not work for mixing in Damar anyway. While Rick's formula bulletin spar was fairly white, a water white (WW) spar like WW Window Spar is better. The oil painting medium should also be clear, not yellow for the same reasons as quick rub. Note that the quick rubbing varnish has been substituted for the old lead based Japan dryers (for about 40 years) which were clear.

erik winkler
Posts: 1063
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:48 pm
Location: Amsterdam Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Damar embosing

Post by erik winkler » Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:59 am

Guys,

I made mine mixture with Transparant clear Damar from the Canadian sign supply, Res N. Gel nice white opague and the new Commonwealth Varnish Co. Quick Rub Varnish. The Rubbing varnish is the only compound that has this dark color....
So my only option now is to look for an alternative of the Commonwealth Quick Rubbing Varnish....


By the way Kent, :oops: the mixing went very rough, so I had my mixing glass stand in a little tub with hot water to mix it more easily (no water was added to the mix). But this did not darken the mix apparently.

I have some w-w window spar also from the commonwealth varnish co. so i could make a new mix with this....?

All the help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu

DAVE SMITH
Posts: 1133
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:12 am
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Damar embosing

Post by DAVE SMITH » Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:05 am

Erik .my Quick Rubbing varnish that Robert kindly sent to me is also very yellow ,I do remember the original formula that I purchased form Fine Gold was clear varnish.
Dave

erik winkler
Posts: 1063
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:48 pm
Location: Amsterdam Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Damar embosing

Post by erik winkler » Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:38 pm

Dave,

That solves the question partly.
What other medium could I use as the dryer-agent in the mixture?

Thanks,
Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu

Mike Jackson
Site Admin
Posts: 1803
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:02 pm
Location: Jackson Hole, WY
Contact:

Re: Damar embosing

Post by Mike Jackson » Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:00 pm

Kent, thanks for giving all the answer above. Didn't some of the labels call it White Damar? Maybe your labels?

Erik,
We are all in the learning "phase". Also, for some effects, your amber Damar might be just the ticket. I never felt compelled to make it myself as it was readily available from either Kent or Rick. A small bottle goes a long way for most of us.

Mike Jackson
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons

erik winkler
Posts: 1063
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:48 pm
Location: Amsterdam Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Damar embosing

Post by erik winkler » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:20 pm

Mike,

I too bought it premade from the Canadian Sign supply.
It looks perfectly transparant, so that was not the problem.
Still working on that awfull jetlag :?

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu

Kent Smith
Posts: 559
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:41 pm
Location: Estes Park, CO
Contact:

Re: Damar embosing

Post by Kent Smith » Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:07 am

Mike, yes the Damar that I made was white Damar which was the formula I gave to Rick. So is the one that Ron makes at Letterhead Sign Supply (same formula).

Erik, yes you can use the WW Window Spar. Some of the new formulae of varnish are base mixes rather than natural resin. Quick Rub has always worked the best for setting time and helps to cure the Damar. None of the ready mix Damar has dryer in it either so it needs one. While one would assume that WW would act as a dryer, it only has enough in its mix to dry itself. It is possible to add 3 to 5% dryer and test to see if the cobalts change the color of the Damar. I have noticed that the cobalt only makes the Damar appear bluer through the glass.

If the quick rub is yellow, not dark amber then the darkening is a chemical reaction, probably because the varnishes are synthetic. I have seen this a lot in the last 15 years, formulators substitute synthetic ingredients even when using original formulae because they are more readily available. This will cause reactions with a real resin base like Damar crystals with unknown results (ie darkening).

Francois Morel
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:35 am
Location: Paris, France
Contact:

Re: Damar embosing

Post by Francois Morel » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:17 pm

Hi guys,
I wanted to try the embossing effect and I checked the different topics speaking about techniques etc. (damar...)

As I'm leaving in France, it's not possible to follow the easiest method which would be to buy the Letterhead Sign Supply one for ex

http://tinyurl.com/h4p8lwa

(Impossible to get it shipped to europe as several products)

So... I was wondering if there would be any solution which would work using this kind of stuff available over here (europe) :

(1) "Lefranc" (If I'm not wrong it's too thin...) :
http://tinyurl.com/hg2relk

(2) "Michael Harding" (several on the page)
http://tinyurl.com/heb58ak

(3) "Sennelier" This one which seems to be more pure and need to be diluted:
http://tinyurl.com/gl6rzaj

(4) "Schminke", Last one which needs to be mixed with terebethine;
http://tinyurl.com/zop9od4


It's always difficult to find answers as we do not have the same products in our old country ;)
Thank you in advance for your help

Kent Smith
Posts: 559
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:41 pm
Location: Estes Park, CO
Contact:

Re: Damar embosing

Post by Kent Smith » Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:32 pm

Sennelier seems to be similar to the thick Grumbacher we used to get. Mix with synthetic oil painting medium and test. It should work for you. The idea is to use this thick substance so that the tooling patterns stay and don't disappear as thinner varnishes would flow out smooth.

Francois Morel
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:35 am
Location: Paris, France
Contact:

Re: Damar embosing

Post by Francois Morel » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:38 pm

Hey!
Sorry Ken, never answered, time flies...
Here is the test I did a few month ago...

Didn' get any occasion to do a new one, but will do soon.
Thnx again for your answer.

I finally found Damar "rocks" at my gold leaf supplier and did a mix with turpentine, adding some of it little by little to get some thick stuff.
I finally applied it to the glass, and waited it dried enough to be "sculpted"...
And "voilà"
Not so sure about the way to gild it after that, water or oil... I tried both.

Image
♫ A B C
It's easy as, 1 2 3
As simple as, do re mi ♫

Kent Smith
Posts: 559
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:41 pm
Location: Estes Park, CO
Contact:

Re: Damar embosing

Post by Kent Smith » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:54 pm

Looks nice from here. I prefer water over Damar as it seems to shine through better.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 10 guests