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gilding a mirror in leaf

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

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BruceJackson
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gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by BruceJackson »

I'm getting an increasing number of enquiries for antique-looking mirror. I thought I would share with you guys some photos of one I did last week along with a few tips.

First stage is spattering some marks over the glass. I do this in several stages. thinned black, even thinner black, thinned down to almost dirty turps. Include some larger spots, some damaged areas, maybe around the edges, touch them with solvent to open up the patterns, touch them with metho to add some more character. You can make these marks appear almost crystaline as the solvents spread the pigment out.

Make a pattern to guide you in laying the leaf. You can't just eyeball it on a large piece. You need a grid to get straight lines and even spacing.

This is obviously quite a large mirror, and I gild it in two halves, working from the centre-line out. There are a couple of reasons for this. One it makes the leaf pattern even. I like to have the pattern centered. You don't want a full square on one edge and a thin strip on the other side. The other reason is to minimize the vertical length of the gilding. Trying to gild a really long vertical strip can result in the water-size drying on the glass and showing as ugly streaks.

I patch up the larger holes, but I don't patch every little tiny hole and crack. It all adds to the character.

Normally I would want to do a more elaborate border or a feature, but the client just wanted this plain. I used moon gold around the edge and 12 carat white gold for the main area. White gold looks finer, warmer and more reflective than silver leaf. The lay lines are distinctly visible but not dominant. The nice grid pattern of square leaves gives it a lot of extra charm that is missing in a chemical mirror.
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Anthony Bennett
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by Anthony Bennett »

Aw, Bruce. That is just jawdropping work.
Absolutely fantastic, thank you for sharing the tips in this post.
Do you never do chemical antique mirrors though like they do in america?

Regards
Tony

ps having been to your web site and seen your picture from the front I have to say you look older from the back :D
erik winkler
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by erik winkler »

Holy cow!

Again Bruce did it....
Odly enough i can not see the squares of the leaves, where and how did hide them! :wink:
I love Roderick his antique mirrors, but these are very extra artistick indeed.
Anthony, doesn't matter how old Bruce is i just want to give him a hug of aproval; I am a true fan.
(humm this does sound weird... but whatever...) :D

Thank you bruce!

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
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DAVE SMITH
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by DAVE SMITH »

Great effect Bruce! That mirror certainly looks old ,I really like the way it has an iodine feel to the spots just like an original antique mirror.
How did you splatter them on the glass,? I used to have an old airbrush which was clogged up, l used it for splattering effects on signboards along with a tooth brush on smaller panels.
This is nice.
Thanks for sharing mate
Dave
Leo Calleros
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by Leo Calleros »

Awesome mirror.

Talk about a job where the Smith tip would have come in handy.
DAVE SMITH
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by DAVE SMITH »

I thought that also Leo. Bruce does'nt not need one,he has it off to a fine art...
Best laid leaves I've seen in a while...
Dave
Patrick Mackle
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by Patrick Mackle »

Bruce,
That is a fine looking antique mirror look. But since there is only one layer of leaf and there will be micro tears and voids that will appear after burnishing, what have you chosen to back up the leaf with? Is it simply black enamel or a mixture of gray? Would you use a different backup color over the gold and compared to the white gold?
(maybe a bole red color over the gold leaf, and a black or gray over the white gold)
In spritzing the initial black color for the antique look, I'm imagining that you are using a oil based black enamel. But then if it is oil enamel, you would require a mineral spirit based solvent, and then followed with an alcohol. Are these components harmonious with each other?
I'm thinking that possibly if the oil based black is thin enough, you may be able to spritz on lacquer thinner a let the surface tension difference force the oil enamel to dry in the shapes of the evaporating lacquer thinner. The addition of alcohol on the lacquer thinner would cause the thinner to spread and evaporate in even odder effects.
Also here is a tip I discovered about using air brushes. I was spraying thick asphaltum with my air brush, but the air brush venturi could not draw the thicker asphaltum out of the cup. So I decided to try pressurizing the aphaltum in an airbrush paint jar instead of the cup. I drill a hole in the cap of the spray jar and fitted in a small length of flexible plastic tubing. That way I could blow air into the jar with my mouth and force the desired amount of thickened asphaltum into the airbrush.
This same set up could be used with thinned materials to get those "tarnished bits" prior to leafing, as blowing lightly or heavily on the tubing will produce variable sized droplets to project from the airbrush at very low pressure. I was impressed with the effects and control it offered.
Pat
BruceJackson
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by BruceJackson »

Thanks for the great comments.

look older from the back hey? Thanks a lot Anthony!...hahaha. I guess I have to admit, the photo shows the truth that my hair is getting thinner and a small bald patch starting to appear...Oh well...I'll wear it as a badge of experience. I'm 52. And Erik...no, that's not weird...I can cope with a man-hug.

Questions:

- "Do you never do chemical antique mirrors though like they do in america?"
No. I am mostly interested in hand-laid leaf and how I can develop that art-form. There's not enough room in my studio for a wet-setup and also, there is a company near me that does it, so I use them.

- "Oddly enough i can not see the squares of the leaves, where and how did hide them!"
There's no trick. They're not hidden and you can see them. It probably just doesn't show in these photos.

- "How did you splatter them on the glass,? "
I didn't use an airbrush. I just use a normal signwriting brush, lightly loaded, and tap it against another brush handle or a screwdriver. I sometimes use a short bristle brush or toothbrush and flick the bristles with a finger, but not this time. Have to be careful doing this, because when the paint is extremely thin, you can get too much spray. The close-up photo shows a fairly heavily spotted section. I vary it so some areas are very lightly worked.

- "Smith tip."
yes, they look good Dave. Funny thing, just before I saw your idea, I was also thinking to make one in a very similar way with a knob-handle, especially a large size for laying aluminium, brass and copper leaf. As for laying gold leaf, I guess I'm kind of used to doing gilding with this tip now. I've only ever had one gilding tip and even though it's slightly too short, it's works. I don't lose too many leaves these days. Even though I laid several hundred leaves on this, I think I only lost one sheet through bad placement, and had maybe half a dozen folded-corners, which you can see i the second photo.

One of the tricks is patience. I bring the leaf up to the glass, then pause, an inch away, line it up, wait for the movement to settle, keeping it parallel to the glass, when it feels right, place it. You need to feel what the leaf is doing.

- "what have you chosen to back up the leaf with? Is it simply black enamel or a mixture of gray?"
It's just "drop black", a local signwriting paint made by Viponds. Matt finish black paint. I sometimes use metallic (silver color) paint first if I don't want any black showing anywhere.

- "Would you use a different backup color over the gold and compared to the white gold? (maybe a bole red color over the gold leaf, and a black or gray over the white gold)"
Sure, red/brown under gold is a nice combo. but only if it is abraded so the color shows through. If the gilding is pristine, it won't show any difference.

- "But then if it is oil enamel, you would require a mineral spirit based solvent, and then followed with an alcohol. Are these components harmonious with each other?"
That's right. You've got the idea.
A spot of turps or spirit onto the tinned paint spreads it nicely. If you then add a spot of alcohol placed on the still wet paint/turps, it sort of grows and does weird things, including forming a sort of ring pattern. It doesn't work the other way. Putting turps or spirit onto the alcohol just makes the pigment ball up.
They may not be harmonious, but once it all dries out, it doesn't matter. It still sticks on the glass.
Roderick Treece
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by Roderick Treece »

Once again Bruce a very nice job, Gives me some ideas that I haven't tryed. It would be alot less wet that's for sure. But how does it compaire time / price wise to gild it rather than mirror and antique it ?

Cheers !
BruceJackson
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by BruceJackson »

it takes longer than chemical silvering for sure.

I guess using leaf instead of chemical method is just my personal preference. I feel that I have control over the finish, and there's a lot of different directions you can take it.Whether it's worth the money depends on the client I guess.

Actually, I was considering asking readers to guess how much it should cost. What would you charge?

Aussie dollar is currently the same the American dollar. I charged $2830, based on my standard price of $1000 per square metre. It took two days of gilding just to lay the leaf, but you can add at least another 2 days for discussion with client, measuring, ordering glass, pattern, doing the painted effect, patching,backing up. Take $850-$900 out of that price to cover costs for glass and gold. I didn't get much else done for the week, so it gives me about $2000 for a week's work...I think that's not bad. I'd be happy to get that regularly. Some of the more detailed jobs take longer and pay less.

What do you guys think?
erik winkler
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by erik winkler »

Just my idea of pricing in this case....

1. I ask € 55,00 an hour with normal sign work, for any gilding or something like that € 65,00.
2. Multiply the suggested goldleave price by 135% (I get a percentage as reduction also).
3. Glass price times 200% (Handling and risk of breaking).
4. Then your painting effects must cost some extra also, because that is your learningcurve/goodwill for 4 hours...mwaaa lets say € 250,00

Add it all up and feel my guts if the price is right or not, that can tweak a little like maximum of 20% more or less.
Prices are ex. VAT.
Let me know if I missed something.

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
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Roderick Treece
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by Roderick Treece »

Bruce,
I think it's a fair price though I might have guessed as high as 4800.00. If you have low over head your price would be just fine. A few of those every now and then would keep things at an even keal.
Larry White and I were talking yesterday about trying your painted finish with chemical mirroring. I will let you know how it turns out.

Keep up the great work !
Patrick Mackle
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by Patrick Mackle »

Bruce,
I was back today admiring your work and I began to wonder how you created the clean full gold boarder prior to beginning the white gold especially at the top radius. I don't see any paint unless you used a clear, and I don't think you would have razor bladed away the edge with the aid of a straight edge, and you would have had to configure some sort of compass mounted razor device for the round top, but that is exactly what it looks like you did.
I love it when thinking is NOWHERE NEAR the box! 8)
Pat
Speaking of outside the box, this is the box INSIDE OUT!! http://www.flixxy.com/athletic-girl-lun ... africa.htm
Last edited by Patrick Mackle on Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Anthony Bennett
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by Anthony Bennett »

Hi Patrick, I don't know what Bruce did, but remember any guidlines you like can be printed out on a plotter and taped to the glass.
Patrick Mackle
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by Patrick Mackle »

Anthony,
You are talking to a "plotter holdout". I've never stepped up to purchase a plotter yet. Can't stand the thought of having to WEED!!
Am I wrong or if you applied even a low tack mask, that it might pull the water gilded leaf up with it when you remove the mask?
Second thought, put down the mask first, and gild the border, pull up the mask and then apply the white gold to the center. Correct?
Pat
Anthony Bennett
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by Anthony Bennett »

Pat, I can dig your Luddite attitude about weeding but a plotter uses a pen to draw onto paper and a cutter uses a knife to cut onto VYnil.
So your plotter basically draws a template onto paper and then you can affix it temporarily to the opposite side of your glass to give you the ability to trace from the othere side.
Yes I know, the artist will say I am cheating but the plotter gives us less talented a break....sort of :D
Patrick Mackle
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by Patrick Mackle »

Anthony,
I never heard the term "Luddite attitude" before now so I looked it up. Very interesting read, I love knowing factual information like that!
In fact you reminded me that back when I visited Roland to see their products I told them that I was interested in a printer/plotter all in one.
Somehow lately I had shortened the term to just "plotter" which is incorrect when I meant to say cutter.
The really funny thing is, being that you and I have never met is that I am ANYTHING other than being "Luddite" about things, in fact quite the opposite. I am actually more "Leonardo-ish" Haha! Always finding ways to automate boring things like etching names into fire bricks. In fact Rube Goldberg might be a spot on best example of my mental workings and machines :idea: , as more than several members here can attest to. :D
Pat
Anthony Bennett
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by Anthony Bennett »

Hi Patrick, I hope you don't think I was being disrespectful in anyway.

Bruce my apologies for veering your very interesting thread away from it's original purpose.
erik winkler
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by erik winkler »

Yeah shame on you Anthony!
But the question pat made still remains... how did the guy from down under made this arch so sharp?

Dutchy
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
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BruceJackson
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by BruceJackson »

hahaha....I'm enjoying the little tangent of the last few posts.

To answer the question how I did the arch.

There's no vinyl involved (I don't like gilding over vinyl, the edge breaks up)...but it's really easy. I just scraped it back with a stylus

I laid the moon gold first, then I laid the white gold straight over the top... I didn't back it up first because of the aged finish. If I tried to clean off the excess gold, it would have cleaned off the antiquing spots. I placed the leaf pretty carefully, remember it is consistently one sheet of moon gold, all the way around. Any leaves that were a slightly out of line, I scraped back with a piece of pointed wood so that they lined up with the adjacent leaf. It's not a perfect line, but being slightly uneven is fine with me.

When I did the arch section, I placed the leaves so the the lay lines formed a radial pattern. They were pretty carefully placed in position, but of course this meant it was a series of short straights, rather than a curve. So I just scraped them back a little to form them into a curve. I tried using a compass, but it was too awkward, so I used a flexible curve to form the shape and give me an edge to scrape along. I didn't need to take much off, only a couple of millimetres off each flat. Again, it's not a perfect curve, but you don't notice. In fact I think it looks better if it varies slightly.

By the way, I saw it in the gallery today, all framed up in a beautiful ornate French antique frame.

Roderick, I'll be interested to find out how it works for you. One of the reasons I didn't try this with chemical silvering for a backing is the painted effect is fairly thin and I suspect the alkaline chemicals will make it smear, if not wash straight off....but of course, you can always spatter some nitric acid on the back of your silver.
Larry White
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by Larry White »

I'LL ASK THE QUESTIONS!

What exactly are you refering to with the term "metho"?

I'm guessing you musta used about 20+ books of gold on that gem!

I mean...am I close? ...am I right?

Hey, thanks for all that great info on the techniques! Truly inspirational!
Think I'll have to have a go at this! I've got a lovely antique frame at home,
that came with a new mirror in it...looks kinda funny, truth be told. I'll have
to do it up one of these "Saturday Nights" in Machine! I'm working on a little
ditty that I'll post up pretty soon. Thanks for taking the time to share all
that with us Bruce! If I ever get the money, I'd like to come down there
and pay you a visit!

Perhaps you could get a picture of this mirror all framed up and hangin' in
the gallery! Bet it looks mighty fine...it surely does!

Aho!

-William Blake


.
Patrick Mackle
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by Patrick Mackle »

Bruce,
I totally overlooked the fact that any razor blading would have removed the antiquing- Big DUH!! :oops:
My misdiagnosis just attests to your skill at placing the leaves of gold (aided by the distance of the camera -Haha)
And I agree with you that laying the leaves as best as you can with their natural irregular edges lends itself to the antiquity of the piece better than a scraped in razor sharp edge. Good call!
Hope you do some more.
Pat
DAVE SMITH
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by DAVE SMITH »

Still pretty hard to get a good result like this with a Smith Tip let aloan do it by hand.
Great job Bruce!
Keep um coming... would be nice to see it hanging up...

Dave
erik winkler
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by erik winkler »

Bruce,

I am a bit ashamed to ask this question, bcause it such a dump one, but i just want to be sure.... :oops:
After looking at your photo's again, I suddenly realised that you 'helped' yourself with a paper layout of squares for laying down the leaves. (Did anyone else noticed this? :wink: )

My question is:
I think you used 80mm x 80mm sized leaves, but with an overlap of 2mm on al sides, am I correct that the squares on your paper layout are 76mm x 76mm or different?

Thanks,
A red Dutchy...
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
BruceJackson
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by BruceJackson »

Larry, Metho is just a Aussie slang term for methylated spirits. Alcohol. same stuff you use for shellac (except for Erik...hahaha). 20 books of leaf is about right. I've run out of white gold now...have to order a new batch.

Also, if you or any other forum members comes to Melbourne. I sure hope you come and visit me. I would be great. I'll feed you and show you the sights. Should be able to arrange a bed too, or at least a mattress on the floor.

Erik, yes I used a paper pattern. I think it's essential for placing the leaf consistently. You're right that the leaf is 80mm squares. ( I usually specify 85mm to my gold beater, but the white gold was 80). The grid is actually 78mm. It's probably a bit too ambitious because it only leaves a 2mm overlap, which is a bit difficult to manage. Not enough room for error. 3mm is a better minimum.
Anthony Bennett
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by Anthony Bennett »

Erik, I think if you re read you will see me and patrick talking about a pattern being used with nme suggesting it might have been printed using a plotter.

Bruce, me brother lives in Berwick and we have visited a couple of times, 2 months in 2008/9 (toured Vic/S.A and New Zealand). We are bound to come over again but will stay in hotels as we want to see some melbourne sights, there must ne more to see than Fountain Gate and Chadstone :D
Would love a tour of your fantastic stuff up close as opposed to the lovely photographs.
BruceJackson
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by BruceJackson »

Berwick is not far away. There's a lot more to Melbourne than shopping in Chadstone or Fountain Gate. You can do that in any city and its' always exactly the same experience!

Oh, yes, I used a plotter to mark out the grid..actually, I mentioned a paper pattern in the original post.
Larry White
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by Larry White »

You're gonna feed me?.........

Bush meat, I hope!

Now there's a motivating factor! :D


-Aho!



.
Patrick Mackle
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by Patrick Mackle »

Bruce,
Knowing Larry as I do you best slip another sushi on the barbi, hopefully a signature "Vegimite Sushi roll" or something. He can get a might unruly if he ain't wedgin' on some sushi. Oh, and you best lock any old scrape wood away as well or your shop may be bigger than before he landed.
Pat
DAVE SMITH
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Re: gilding a mirror in leaf

Post by DAVE SMITH »

Best not let Larry tell you what to eat Bruce either when it comes to Sushi.
Pick your own meal ! best advice I can give on this subject.
Dave
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