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Lacquer method of sign painting

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

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David Slade
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Location: Osaka, Japan
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Lacquer method of sign painting

Post by David Slade »

I found this patent which seems to be the same system described by E. C. Matthews. In an article on The Sign Painting Museum site Matthews mentions visiting Vaughn's shop so there IS some connection.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/1646565.pdf
TITLED: METHOD OF MAKING SIGNS, Filed June 21, 1926

I found and ordered a copy of the book but it has not come yet. Can't wait so been experimenting with the method but...

The masking paste described on the patent would not work for me. Maybe there is a secret ingredient...
I started trying other liquids with better results but the edge quality is not as good as I would like. I also had a problem where the lacquer got through in the center of a line an a piece not shown here.

Three plates picture: GUY is the exact formula as the patent and the other barely visible tests are variations of it. They all beaded away from the edges as you can see. The ones that are better are based on PVA with glycerine and lithopone. The edges are nothin to holler about.
three plates.JPG
three plates.JPG (103.25 KiB) Viewed 6293 times
Chalk picture: I tried a chalk marker. No go...
chalk.JPG
chalk.JPG (73 KiB) Viewed 6301 times
Close up picture: straight line is white glue, glycerine and lithopone -- not bad. "D" is the same with water added -- worse. "S" is the same with PVA added -- best so far.
close up 2.JPG
close up 2.JPG (88.13 KiB) Viewed 6311 times
:?: Consistency is hard to letter with tho and still room for better edge quality. Maybe this cannot be helped?

:?: Anybody using this method?
Robare M. Novou
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Re: Lacquer method of sign painting

Post by Robare M. Novou »

Not sure why you would want to use this method.

Would not a vinyl mask do the same?

RMN
What's On Your Book Shelf ?

http://www.milwaukeesignworks.com
David Slade
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Re: Lacquer method of sign painting

Post by David Slade »

curiosity, fun, knowledge expansion...

I don't have a vinyl cutter machiney thing. Did you mean a liquid vinyl mask?
erik winkler
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Re: Lacquer method of sign painting

Post by erik winkler »

I like experiments.
Go David go!
With experiments of old recipies, we could get new insights and better solutions for what we are doing now.
When I finish my two glass pieces one of these weeks, I will start testing and experiment on an easier alternative of the asphaltum glue chipping method.

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
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Kent Smith
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Re: Lacquer method of sign painting

Post by Kent Smith »

This was an exercise in a basically failed attempt to have a very fast drying painted sign. While some, including Matthews had some success, the quality could not have been good, given the examples I have seen over the years. During the time period, lacquer had the highest gloss as well as fast dry, but dry time itself was too fast for conventional lettering with a brush. With all of the other options available to us now, it seems like a poor substitute. It is interesting to delve into some of the historic practices though and see what the inventors were doing to improve production.
Mike Jackson
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Re: Lacquer method of sign painting

Post by Mike Jackson »

David,
Check out this old post:
https://handletteringforum.com/forum ... &hilit=mud

At some point in the thread, we were talking about Mud and some of the issues related to it.
The reason it went away is it was a lousy process/product and was replaced with various materials that were much better.

I'd suggest you find SprayLat or GripFlex (sometimes calls SignMask). It is water based and can be brushed, sprayed, or rolled. When dry, you can draw on it with a magic marker and cut it easily with a X-Acto knife.

Good luck,
Mike Jackson
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
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Robare M. Novou
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Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 11:18 am
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Re: Lacquer method of sign painting

Post by Robare M. Novou »

Maybe you should try this.
http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/div/div3020.htm

RMN
What's On Your Book Shelf ?

http://www.milwaukeesignworks.com
David Slade
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Re: Lacquer method of sign painting

Post by David Slade »

Thank you for the information! I searched several times but that thread did not come up.

I have an academic interest in this method mostly, but...
To tell the truth I do have a piece with aluminum bronze lettering I need to put a ground on... Very similar to Joe Ceislowski's situation... the bass acwards way of gilding...

The last test I did I was able to spray the lacquer and mask off another aluminum letter with little damage. I am optimistic.

This is really fun aside from anything else! The letters magically appear when you spray them with a garden hose! I love it!

Eric, thanks for the cheer! I'll post more tests soon. Malted milk powder, hmmm....
David Slade
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Re: Lacquer method of sign painting

Post by David Slade »

I tried the lacquer method masking on the aluminum sign I mentioned.


The sign is plastic primed with spray can plastic primer.
The lettering is Vilpond size with blue aluminum powder.
sign before ground
sign before ground
mud1.JPG (86.86 KiB) Viewed 5866 times
Mask ingredients: lithopone, white glue, PVA glue and glycerine.
ingredients
ingredients
mud2.JPG (127.42 KiB) Viewed 5865 times
I applied the mask mud with a watercolor brush. I cleaned off mess ups and bad lines with water and Q-tips.
mudded sign
mudded sign
mud3.JPG (110.15 KiB) Viewed 5865 times
I sprayed one fog coat and three cover coats of yellow lacquer. Yellow never covers...
ground sprayed
ground sprayed
mud7.JPG (81.21 KiB) Viewed 5869 times
I sprayed the mask off with the garden hose with nozzle set to stream. Three coats is hard to remove so I got the nozzle up close. I tried a hog bristle brush at first but found it damaged the aluminum... A pressure washer would work best but the hose ended up doing okay.
mask removed
mask removed
mud9.JPG (97.68 KiB) Viewed 5861 times
Success! Or close nuf.
Next I will do the same to the other side and then outline the letters and ground. Dark blue or black I am thinking.

Hope this was useful to someone :D
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