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L'art pour L'art

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

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erik winkler
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L'art pour L'art

Post by erik winkler »

L'art pour L'art/Art for Art sake.
An art, ideological and philosophical movement about art at the end of the 19th century.

Since I have seen the craftmanship of the reverse glass work, for the first time, I thought about this ideology.
In my personal opinion the craftmanship of the reverse glass embelishments should nowadays be stand on itself and not a way to reproduce signs of earlier dates.
Beautifully made designs of sigars, beer, chocolate and showcases of goldleaf craftmanship holds back the level of art this glass work can and must become.
No advertisement of a product, but just in itself sheer beauty.
Art for Art in it self; something to look at every day when waking up, when coming home.
Picturing the pleasure of life itself, nature, flowers, butterflies, love, (for some) faith and family.

In this design I tried to express my feelings and ideas.

L'art pour L'art
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Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
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erik winkler
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by erik winkler »

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Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
Roderick Treece
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by Roderick Treece »

Very empressive Eric !
Jerry Berg
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by Jerry Berg »

Well Erik,

You will enjoy looking at this everyday when you wake up.

Beautiful job!
Kelly Thorson
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by Kelly Thorson »

It looks like they turned out beautifully Erik!
But there is no sense in having two - you had better send Kelly one to hang in her new studio and appreciate. ;) :lol:
All kidding aside, I wasn't so sure about the butterflies and flowers in the border but they turned out really nicely. I like the simplified version of the flowers. Are the canvas prints adhered to the glass or just mounted behind it?
Is all the shell coloured or did you mount it behind glazes?
I bet you have a well deserved sense of satisfaction looking at them!
I believe there is no shame in failure. Rather, the shame lies in the loss of all the things that might have been, but for the fear of failure.
Patrick Mackle
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by Patrick Mackle »

Wow Erik,
Those turned out very nice. And I agree that reverse glass painting should be implemented into current art projects. I should enjoy a resurgence.
Pat
Ron Berlier
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by Ron Berlier »

Wow :!: :!: Very nice work. I love that green it sets everything off very nicely. I, like Kelly, am curious about the flowers and the pictorial. How are they done? Those wing tips work into the gold and chipped area really well.

R
Ron Berlier
Wherever I go, there I am.
erik winkler
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by erik winkler »

Thanks guys.
The flowers are tinted on the glass. It is the only way to give every single little leaf a different tone.
The little butterflies are done in tones as well (body and wings). The trick here is to keep the tint from melting down when applying the shells.
After a lot of thinking, studying and experimenting I came to the conclusion that glueing the painting behind the glass is the best way. Esspecially for this one, since this design needed an acurate placement within 0,5 mm.
Having it loose on the rear side would not work due to movement.

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
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Anthony Bennett
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by Anthony Bennett »

Great stuff Erik, How long did the project take?
DAVE SMITH
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by DAVE SMITH »

Erik.
You said you had 500 hours in these and now I can see why. You made a fantastic clean sharp job.
Welldone to you, keep up the great work!.

I like those flowers very much.
Dave back from the dead.
erik winkler
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by erik winkler »

It indeed took a lot of time to make these two panels.
But I only have time at night and during the weekend.
Plus I again made a lot of tests before using a new technique, that took a lot of time as well.
But without working hard and pushing: no good results.

I want to use this thread to thank Dave, my first teacher who catapulted me in the right direction.
Without him and his workshop it would have taken me more then just 2 years to learn about glass.

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
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www.schitterend.eu
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DAVE SMITH
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by DAVE SMITH »

Well thanks Erik I appreciate that mate. Looks like you have the silvering process and the other techniques I showed you down to a fine art, and all in a matter of 2 years.
Amazing! we will be asking you questions from now on...... Welldone. After not being here for a while I noticed a post you made about Bonami which looks like a great idea,will be placing my orders for some bars, so get making them!...
Dave
BruceJackson
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by BruceJackson »

Wow, Erik, that's really impressive.

I wasn't aware you had been working on these all this time.
There's a lot of different techniques in it, all of them well-executed.

I appreciate and agree with your comments about taking the artform beyond the confines of advertising or the limitations of yesteryear. I can see many others here feel the same way, yet we are still working out where to take our art. It's an interesting journey.

For myself, about 15 years ago, I decided to specialize in verre églomisé (glass gilding) and for a while, I felt the need to break away from the limitations of signwriting and explore other sides to it. I wanted to see what else was possible, maybe I needed to change my own perception of my trade. More recently, I have come back to signwriting and the heritage of our art, because I think it's possible to appreciate and build on that as a base yet not be limited by it's conventions.

I feel we will look back on this period of time and will recognize that this is the early days of a new artistic movement, born of the cooling embers of an old trade and tradition, but now with it's own momentum.

So now, Erik grasshopper...having learned and mastered the materials and the methods...which direction will you go now?
erik winkler
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by erik winkler »

In the bottom frame I used a quote that says what I think, but what is allways difficult to pursue:
In his essay ‘The Soul of Man Under Socialism,’ published in 1891 in the Pall Mall Gazette, Oscar Wilde wrote:
"A work of art is the unique result of a unique temperament.
Its beauty comes from the fact that the author is what he is.
It has nothing to do with the fact that other people want what they want.
Indeed, the moment that an artist takes notice of what other people want, and tries to supply the demand, he ceases to be an artist, and becomes a dull or an amusing craftsman, an honest or a dishonest tradesman.
He has no further claim to be considered as an artist."


I will try and do my utmost to follow my view that this work must be with contempory idea's like social problems or just plain beauty.

First of all I will finish a few other things, after that I will try to use the French style in my work.
No advertisement for baquetes or patiserie, just a good composition of a modern theme, which deals with the issues of every day life.

Here some other photo's which show other angles.
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Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
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Mark Summers
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by Mark Summers »

Absolutely beautiful Erik. I baffled by the pictorials. I'm (guessing)
you painted a canvas and adhered. Maybe you can give us some
insight on what you did there.
You raised the bar with these works.

Mark
Ingrid Mager
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by Ingrid Mager »

Mark, I think Erik put prints under the glass, but nonetheless, very lovely choice of graphics and the way they are implemented into the overall design.

Erik, I have much admiration and respect towards the giant strides you have made.
You have come a long way and it goes without saying that all your classes, study and travel are paying off handsomely, and you should be very proud of this piece, as I am sure you are.
~Inga
Last edited by Ingrid Mager on Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
erik winkler
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by erik winkler »

Mark, like the craftsman did in the past: I have put paintings behind glass.
This can be done with a varnish mix.
Again, thank you for the compliments.
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
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www.schitterend.eu
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Ingrid Mager
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by Ingrid Mager »

Sometimes the language differences gets me a bit.....so: is that an actual painting on canvas, or a nice print of a painting?
Either way.....very lovely.
Thanks,
Inga
Last edited by Ingrid Mager on Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mark Summers
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by Mark Summers »

I think what he is indicating Ingrid is that an actual painting
on canvas was done x2 and then adhered to the glass via
the varnish mix. I can see how this fooled you. I thought
I saw a bit of canvas in one of the above pictures.
BTW what is the varnish mix you used Erik.

Mark
Mark Summers
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by Mark Summers »

I'd like to re-phrase my comment a bit. I can see how the
identical paintings could fool 'one'. Must be brother Erik
knows his fine arts.

Mark
erik winkler
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by erik winkler »

Did you know in the old days the studios had many different artists working on one piece?
One embossed, one silvered, one painted the glass, one did the pictorials on canvas etc.
I used my friend Roland to paint the pictorials of the childeren and white flowers, because those are images in the style of the L'art pour L'art movement. The white flowers are made in photoshop. I had to do this because everything had to fit exactly in the burnished gold border I had designed within 0,5mm.
You must try it sometime.

Everything else is painted by brush or finger.

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
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Ingrid Mager
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by Ingrid Mager »

Did you know in the old days the studios had many different artists working on one piece?
One embossed, one silvered, one painted the glass, one did the pictorials on canvas etc.

......as well in the brilliant cutting studios....they would set up a different machine for the different wheels and pass one glass piece around from one craftsman on one wheel, to another craftsman on another wheel so that so much time would not be wasted in changing out the wheels.

I used my friend Roland to paint the pictorials of the childeren and white flowers, because those are images in the style of the L'art pour L'art movement.
Well, I think Roland is a "keeper" as they say here in America.
~Inga
Anthony Bennett
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by Anthony Bennett »

It's still beutifull erik, Did you use the versacamm to printo onto canvas, paper or vinyl though please?
I would love to know what your varnish mix is please so that I could experiment, I have a Roland 600 gathering dust and it would be lovely to find a use for it again even if it does no longer print perfectly.
erik winkler
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by erik winkler »

Anthony Bennett wrote:It's still beutifull erik, Did you use the versacamm to printo onto canvas, paper or vinyl though please?
I would love to know what your varnish mix is please so that I could experiment, I have a Roland 600 gathering dust and it would be lovely to find a use for it again even if it does no longer print perfectly.

Anthony,
I made my own mix using some local products. You would have to experiment with some varnishes and materials.
At the end it is for you to deside what is most important:
1. Original techniques, look and feel.
2. Quality of work.
3. Durability in and outside.

In the old days they used printing presses to make their pictorials, others used their artist to paint it on canvas.
I have seen many glass facades in Paris and came to the conclusion that the qualtiy of the artists were very poor, but for a glass facade it did not matter, because it is looked at from far.
Strangely some of the old gildwork 1850-1910 I saw was extraordinaire in detail, absolutely beautifull. So the paintings of the one artist did not do the gilding of the other artist any good; it did not complement each other.
My work could be seen from 1cm distance and you can pull your hair when watching/studying the details. It is all a mather of personal choices. and preferences.
And yes I am proud of the result, because it is exactly the way I envisioned it when designing.

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
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Anthony Bennett
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by Anthony Bennett »

That's very interesting Erik but doesn't answer the question.
Did you use ecosol inks in the versacamm? If so how did you get over the problem of the varnish breaking the ecosol down over time.

Very interesting indeed, I think you should maybe write a book with pictures of your techinique. I suspect it would be a good seller.
David Slade
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by David Slade »

Words cannot describe art or our feelings about them!

silence..............


Congratulations on your stunning success, Eric ! ! !

On the philosophical:
I reckon everybody looks at signs... Art is sought out by art lovers... Blending the two gives art to the masses...

Are you going to teach us that new chipping process next?
bob gamache
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by bob gamache »

Nice Erik , really well done man! Hats off to you buddy!
Bob Gamache
Larry White
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by Larry White »

......not bad....

Congratulations.
I know where you got on board...I was there too, remember.
To, uhm, help new gilders with advanced techniques...
You've come along way just the same, and fast.

Don't play the contemporary gilder with me, Mr. Winkler.
I knew you when you were just barely leafin'.

I watched your glass work get better and better everyday.

Art for Art's sake, hmmm...... with all that text, it kinda looks like a sign.
Maybe the next one, no text. .....but I don't know.........
Wait a minute, wait just a minute! Why don't you make the next one
without any use of the computer, or screen printing.....go on then!

Personally, I love all the old work. I like to replicate it, and I like to look at it.
Kinda makes me feel attached to a bit of ....History.
Never much cared for contemporary...that's me, that's me.

.......nice job never the less!



Endeavour to Perservere! -Aho!


So much for your thought of, "I do not know if my efforts are appreciated,
since my posts do not get a lot of response."

........well now ya know......




.
Last edited by Larry White on Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
erik winkler
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by erik winkler »

Larry you allways be mister sharing. If you only know howmany hours I have studied your panels, your techniques. Without you and the rest on this forum I would not have done it!!!
Doing out of the box designs, could be the future for us.

Thanks again for all the help you and the others here have given me.

Erik

P.s. I did one without text remember?.... The one with the silvered curlies on a black background. Don't tell anybody: it was based on an Rawson & Evans oldy. Did not felt history for me, just sweatdrops on my forehead and relief when they were finished :D
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
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Larry White
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Re: L'art pour L'art

Post by Larry White »

I remember those panels....

....and I enjoyed them......

Seems those panels had some sort of.......History!



.
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