Light Box chipping table

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Jeff Lang
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:31 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA

Light Box chipping table

Post by Jeff Lang » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:02 pm

Well, with the advice of Dave Smith I went & built a light box over one of my work tables at the studio. I had a glass transom to chip for a customer & the old box I built from Ricks plans I usually used to gluechip glass worked well, but I wanted to give this a try, plus I'd have a good light table for many other things. I didn't get fancy, just trimmed the table edges with mdo & put in 4 simple 4' double bulb fixtures. I used an old sign face that is 3/16" lexan for the top & I was pretty much ready to go.
Went & blasted the glass, blew it off with compressed air, & put it directly on the light table ( I did cover the face with transfer tape to protect from scratches). While the glass warmed up, I went & mixed the glue. When the glue was ready, I poured it onto the glass & spread it about with an adhesive spreader made of plastic I picked up at the local builders supply store, they're used for spreading floor adhesive & such. Everything seemed to go smoothly & quickly, to my likings. About 3 hours later the glue had already set up enough from the warmth of the light box so I could cut the glue and remove the masked areas. I came back to the shop about 4 hours later to check on the progress and to my surprise, it had already started chipping. I resisted the temptation of picking at the glue, or helping it along, shut the door & went home. When I returned in the morning, it was finished chipping completely.
Thanks Dave, I'm a fan of my new light box.
Jeff
Attachments
light table.jpg
3' x 6' light table with the finished chipped glass
light table.jpg (68.98 KiB) Viewed 13448 times
IMG_3597.JPG
notched glue spreader
IMG_3597.JPG (68.09 KiB) Viewed 13453 times
IMG_3601.JPG
finished chipped close-up
IMG_3601.JPG (117.68 KiB) Viewed 13451 times
Jeff Lang
Olde Lang Signs
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
412-732-9999

Larry White
Posts: 1140
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:18 am

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Larry White » Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:13 pm

Looks good Jeff. Did you calculate the surface area to figure how much glue to
pour over that area?...or do you have a different method of determining the
right amount of glue to use?

-Larry

Jeff Lang
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:31 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Jeff Lang » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:38 pm

Larry,
I made what I thought was more than enough glue. If you can see in the top photo, there is a piece of mask release liner leftover from the job. Whatever glue I have left, I'll pour out on the liner & spread into a thin layer & it will dry the same way as the glue on the glass, just wouldn't stick to the liner. I collect up the used glue & put in a bucket to reuse for another time.
I had done this job for the client about a 3 years ago, they changed partners & needed one letter on the glass changed, lucky for me.
Short answer, no.
Jeff
Jeff Lang
Olde Lang Signs
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
412-732-9999

Larry White
Posts: 1140
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:18 am

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Larry White » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:04 am

Varying thicknesses of glue will yield different chip patterns,
Do you just pour it on, spread it around and call it good?

I've typically used 6 fluid ounces of prepared glue for every
square foot of glass.

Just wondered how you handled it, but your last reply didn't
seem to answer the question.

....maybe, maybe it is a secret......


.

Jeff Lang
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:31 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Jeff Lang » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:15 am

Larry,
The notched spreader worked great for spreading the glue evenly over the glass, & the warmth of the light box helped keep the glue from quickly gelling up.
To simply answer your question, yes. I poured the glue onto the glass, using the 3/16 edge of the spreader, spread the glue all over the glass in an even layer or coat. What ever was left over was spread off of the glass onto the vinyl release liner.
As I mentioned, I have been reusing the glue, so I haven't been able to measure as accurately how much glue I use per square foot.
The secret is reading my mind because I failed to mention using the 3/16 edge of the spreader. The 1/8 side didn't leave enough glue on the surface, & the 1/4 side didn't seem to move the glue around enough.
Not sure if this is the perfect setup, but it sure worked well for me.


But if you like...I'll use the short answer... again... :wink:

No.


Jeff
Jeff Lang
Olde Lang Signs
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
412-732-9999

Larry White
Posts: 1140
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:18 am

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Larry White » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:08 pm

I think the short answer should be....

Yes.


...but I don't know.....


.

DAVE SMITH
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:12 am
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by DAVE SMITH » Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:46 pm

This worked out great for you Jeff. The design looks very nice ,you have some fine chipped lines there with no shelling. lovely job mate..
As I said before on other posts to do with glue chipping , by keeping the glass and glue warm throughout the process I think is a key factor in a succesful chip with a nice consistant fern pattern. As jeff has said here the spreaders work well for leveling and because of the warmth on the surface of the light table you have more time to work with the gelling stage for cutting. Thickness is a big factor when it comes to glue chipping as we all know, I have rolled out the glue using hand rollers that I bought from Rick which also worked as long as you have consistant heat on the surface of the glass, too thin and the chip will be weak ,to thick and it finds it hard to chip. These spreaders are the way to go! TheLangGlueChipSpreader2011.


Dave

Kent Smith
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:41 pm
Location: Estes Park, CO
Contact:

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Kent Smith » Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Makes me think of the racks at Western Sandblast that had a gas burner under a metal reverse pan at the bottom. Warm all the time.

Ingrid Mager
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:23 am

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Ingrid Mager » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:22 am

Perfect timing....was just blasting sample pieces today for chipping.
I last did some chipping many, many moons ago and was successful with fern pattern mostly by chance, I think. So a few questions:

••I already have a light table - but it doesn't really seem to get warm. (Never tried to use it for chipping before)
It has fluorescent bulbs. Is that what I am supposed to use?

••Does the effectiveness of this system rely on working in a typically warm room, or does that matter? (I keep my place very cool.....around 55º...but it IS extremely dry here which should help )

••Sounds like it is being suggested the shell (snail?) pattern is less desirable. DId I understand correctly, and if so, why? Because the fern allows for finer detail should one want to follow with gilding?

Thanks,
Inga

Jeff Lang
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:31 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Jeff Lang » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:06 am

Ingrid,
I used fluorescent bulbs for the box I made & they do let off a small amount of heat. What I noticed when I put the glue on the warm glass, the glue would flow out nicely, compared to putting it on cold glass. The temp at my shop is kept around 64 degrees & having the glass warmed versus room temp seemed to make a difference in flow & eveness of glue, and I bet it would adhere better to the warm glass.
About the pattern, I don't know which is better, but I think as long as it's consistant throughout the panel, that's the key.
Good luck with those samples, please post photos of your efforts if you can.
Jeff
Jeff Lang
Olde Lang Signs
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
412-732-9999

Ingrid Mager
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:23 am

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Ingrid Mager » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:15 am

Interesting. I thought the key was to removed moisture, and would that not be acquired by a dry, warm circulating atmosphere? I used heat lamps before, but not too close to the glass and from above. It makes some sense to have the light/heat come from the back side, though, but my box does not get warm. Hmmmm......

I guess I will go ahead and run my tests and post about it if anyone is interested. Seems this topic never ceases to ask 'how did you do it?".

Thanks,
Inga

Larry White
Posts: 1140
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:18 am

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Larry White » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:44 pm

Ken Davis and I are currently trying this also. We'll report back....


.

Ron Berlier
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:27 am

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Ron Berlier » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:33 am

Hi Jeff,

What is the distance from the tubes to the Lexan and is the box pretty much sealed, or is there a vent to let heat out?
Ron Berlier
Wherever I go, there I am.

Doug Bernhardt
Posts: 1025
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:29 am
Location: Ottawa Canada
Contact:

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Doug Bernhardt » Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:10 am

I've been using this same arrangement (or at least pretty much the same) also with good results. As Dave Smith suggests it's really the warm glass that makes the difference. I've also tried all sorts of heat lamps etc etc but this is the cats meow. Mine is just an old electric sign with new ballast and more lamps like Jeff's....so whatever the distance is from the plastic face is, is what it is...maybe about 5 or so inches.
e-chipping table1.jpg
e-chipping table1.jpg (89.23 KiB) Viewed 12888 times
it sure beats the old one
e-Chipping Booth.jpg
e-Chipping Booth.jpg (78.97 KiB) Viewed 12894 times

Kerri Lynn Brownlee
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:27 pm

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Kerri Lynn Brownlee » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:31 pm

My first set up was simular to your truck bed...it worked but made me really nervous about the glass being damaged by a grand child that didn't know that it was there! :shock:

I am currently using a heat lamp and a space heater combo that was pleasantly successful. However, the set up is NOT viable for large pieces (bigger than 2ft x 2ft). I will soon have to find a way to chip the larger pieces.

This is a nice idea that I will consider....

Thanks,
Kerri Brownlee

Jeff Lang
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:31 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Jeff Lang » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:31 pm

Ingrid,
Yep, run those tests, I know I'd like to hear how you got along. I want to mention about my experience with the heat coming from the lamps or bulbs. There feels like there is no heat when I first turn them on, but after they stay on for a while & are in an inclosed area, they do put off a small amount of warmth. Nothing I'd roast marshmallows on, just a small difference.

Larry,
That's great, I'm always interested to read about your latest tests & projects. Let me know how it goes.

Ron,
The box is all closed up, so no air is vented in or out, which seems to keep the air inside warm.
The fluoroscent bulbs are about 3"-4" away from the face.

Doug,
Thanks for the additional input, and I agree, the glue going onto the warm glass seemed to really simplify the process for me. I wouldn't need to move it after the glue was on. I forgot to mention on this table, it has adjustable feet allowing me to get the table perfectly level, allowing the glue to stay put.

Jeff
Jeff Lang
Olde Lang Signs
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
412-732-9999

Larry White
Posts: 1140
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:18 am

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Larry White » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:54 am

Now ya see there...look at the chip on that glass.

Image

That is a very nice chip, it is.

Flowed out the glue on this Friday night, cut it on Saturday morning,
Come in Monday morning and looky here amigos, that panel is all
chipped up!

Not bad.

-BB



.

Ron Berlier
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:27 am

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Ron Berlier » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:11 pm

Larry, is the top clear glass or plexiglass? TNX
Ron Berlier
Wherever I go, there I am.

Larry White
Posts: 1140
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:18 am

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Larry White » Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:08 pm

Clear, 1/8" thick glass. I think I'll sandblast the underside to frost it.
And since I like how it worked, I'll put it all together permanently. Right
now it's all just pieced together. Worked good though!



.

Ingrid Mager
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:23 am

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Ingrid Mager » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:49 pm

Stupid question time:
I did chipping years ago with good results. HOWEVER< I did a different technique that I had seen where you first blast a very narrow trough around the edges of the areas you are going to chip, before you frost the overall area. I used the old Buttercut (+/- 45 mil rubber) and that created a nice dam. No trimming needed...just flow the glue to the height of the rubber stencil and go. >>BUT<<<.....you end up with an outline around all the chipped areas. In some instances, I think this looks really great. But I want to try the way you guys are doing it without the outline where you can do fine detail and gild it.

Now, I am trying the recommended technique where you trim off the glue, and disaster struck. I blasted with medium fine mix of SiC & AO and cleaned the blast residue off before pouring the glue on warmed glass.
When in a gel state, I tried to trim the glue (what a pain in the tiny areas!) and the exacto blade (new) drags a bit, and eventually, the hide glue just starts pulling away from the frosted areas everywhere. <gasp>

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks,
inga

Larry White
Posts: 1140
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:18 am

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Larry White » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:49 am

Whenever there is fine detail to be chipped, I like to use the "asphaltum
method", flowing the glue onto the sandblasted areas via a squeeze
bottle. On larger designs, I'll use the "double cut" method. (I think the
term "double cut" came from the idea that the mask had been hand cut,
therefore the design gets cut twice.) I'm not sure which is quicker, but
not having to clean the asphaltum off of the glass is nice.

Image
Asphaltum Method Asphaltum coated glass has been
masked, then the asphaltum is sandblasted off as the glass is etched,
the mask is then removed and the glue flowed up to the edge of the
asphaltum image.

Image
Double Cut Method The glue is poured over the entire
area of the image, when gelled, the glue is cut at the design edge and
the masking is removed.

Cutting the glue requires, time, and art. I'll often start my cut in the
middle of a line and cut away from any corners, so as not to pull up
the glue in that corner....if that makes any sense....

Good luck, heh?

-BB


.

Ingrid Mager
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:23 am

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Ingrid Mager » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:23 pm

Okay. Guess I just need to give the cutting a second try, and maybe not on such a tiny, detailed piece.
Thanks,
Inga

DAVE SMITH
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:12 am
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by DAVE SMITH » Wed May 11, 2011 3:32 pm

Nice job Larry. I told you the light box was the best method........told you this 7 years ago, you just need to listen. Reckon you've been watching too many cowboy movies..lol
English

Larry White
Posts: 1140
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:18 am

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Larry White » Thu May 12, 2011 11:36 am

One method is as good as another, heh?....

Vitaly Naumov
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:01 am

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Vitaly Naumov » Sat May 14, 2016 6:56 am

Glue chipping on this table takes place at room temperature ?

Jeff Lang
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:31 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Jeff Lang » Sat May 14, 2016 8:29 am

Vitaly,
Yes. The room temperature in my shop usually ranges around 66° in the winter to 78° in the summer.
Jeff
Jeff Lang
Olde Lang Signs
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
412-732-9999

Vitaly Naumov
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:01 am

Re: Light Box chipping table

Post by Vitaly Naumov » Sat May 14, 2016 9:10 am

Celsius or Fahrenheit?))

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