Gold Leaf

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Roderick Treece
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Gold Leaf

Post by Roderick Treece » Fri May 27, 2011 1:22 pm

I don't know about anyone else but I am constantly being solicited by companies all over the world to buy gold leaf. Mostly from China. While I have no problem buying good quality gold from different sources I do try and stay with companies and brands I know.
With all the competition out there one thing I have notice in the last few years is the total lack of traditional packaging that I have come to expect in the past when I spend good money on gold. Allot of suppliers are sending it out in little plastic zip lock baggies , the books aren't even in there own glaseen envelops anymore.
I just received some samples from China that were packaged like that. So I wrote them back and told them I won't buy anything form anyone anymore unless it is packaged traditionally. I also mentioned this issue to Jim at Golden Leaf Products and he told me they would start doing it in the traditional style.
If we demand it be packed traditionally and look for it like that when buying it we can change the way they do it.

Roderick
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Leo Calleros
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Re: Gold Leaf

Post by Leo Calleros » Fri May 27, 2011 2:21 pm

I got a book og chinese gold months back from a Chinese manufacturer and it all came not so well packaged. Just the books, no packaging. I Had a box of empty packages that I put them into.

The leaves get damaged much too easily the way then send it.

The gold seemed to be of fairly good quality compared to samples I received years before.

Patrick Mackle
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Re: Gold Leaf

Post by Patrick Mackle » Fri May 27, 2011 3:33 pm

It's the same everywhere! I get the same stupid question at the super market- paper or plastic? DUH!!
Pat

DAVE SMITH
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Re: Gold Leaf

Post by DAVE SMITH » Fri May 27, 2011 4:33 pm

Rod just out of interest. How much are you paying for gold leaf? Good quality gold.. I just bought some from Wrights of Lymm at £13,65 PER BOOK.
Loose gold, probably the best I have ever had quality wise,it dries out like Angelgild the joints are hardly noticeable.
Thanks
Dave

Roderick Treece
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Re: Gold Leaf

Post by Roderick Treece » Fri May 27, 2011 7:34 pm

Hi Dave,
The pound is .6076 to the dollar today. so you paid 27.30 US per book. I always buy gold buy the pack (Box). Just bought two boxes for 500.00 each. 25.oo per pack. 12.5 L. 23.75 xx loose glass gold

Jeff Lang
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA

Re: Gold Leaf

Post by Jeff Lang » Sun May 29, 2011 2:23 pm

Rod,
I think your math is off a little. If the exchange is .6076 for Stirling to Dollar then 1 GBP = 1.65 USD then the book would cost $22.52 each or $450.40 per pack.
Using an online currency converter...
http://www.xe.com/ucc/
you can see the exchange fo exact amounts. If I use my credit card to make a purchase, I get the best rate of the day (which usually isn't much, but for larger purchases, it does make a difference.).

Even though the exchange fluctuates daily, it's not usually much.

I have purchased from Wrights of Lymm regularly since 2007 and Samantha & Clive (Dave thinks his name is Barry) are great to deal with and they offer a wonderful product.

Take a look over their site, lots of different karats & colors.
http://www.stonehouses.co.uk/



Jeff
Last edited by Jeff Lang on Mon May 30, 2011 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jeff Lang
Olde Lang Signs
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
412-732-9999

Roderick Treece
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Re: Gold Leaf

Post by Roderick Treece » Sun May 29, 2011 3:38 pm

Here's what it said for today

1.00 USD = 0.605982 GBP
US Dollar British Pound
1 USD = 0.605982 GBP 1 GBP = 1.65021 USD

DAVE SMITH
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Re: Gold Leaf

Post by DAVE SMITH » Sun May 29, 2011 4:03 pm

Barry is correct Rod.
Dave

Roderick Treece
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Re: Gold Leaf

Post by Roderick Treece » Mon May 30, 2011 9:19 am

How is the prices once you add in shipping to the US ? How does the gold come packed ?

Jeff Lang
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA

Re: Gold Leaf

Post by Jeff Lang » Mon May 30, 2011 9:08 pm

Rod,
Shipping for me (to Pittsburgh, PA) has been the same every time, whether I ordered 1 pack or 3, at $50 via FedEx insured.
And, packaging is the plain wrappings without an envelope, so you probably won't like that part, but you get a complimentary tin when you order more than a book.
http://www.stonehouses.co.uk/special_offers.php

But, repeating what Dave has mentioned about the quality, it gives a great gild, surface or glass.

Jeff
Jeff Lang
Olde Lang Signs
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
412-732-9999

Doug Bernhardt
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Re: Gold Leaf

Post by Doug Bernhardt » Tue May 31, 2011 9:01 pm

I'm now convinced....the price is "wright" (no pun intended) Met these people in Scotland and liked them. Need to order a couple of packs shortly and will contact them. Just an addition...the products I got in Scotland a few years back, were excellent and as "cool" as the items you would get from Glawson and Evans those years ago. My gilders pad/cushion had an old parchment back that originally had been a deed in Victoria's reign. The gilders tip has become my favourite (except of course for the Smitty Tip)

BruceJackson
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Re: Gold Leaf

Post by BruceJackson » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:23 am

makes me feel like some backwoods hillbilly....T'aint never seem them thar glassene packets.

Honestly, in the 20 odd years I've been gilding, using leaf from many different sources, I've never yet had one come in a packet like that. Even the few antique books I've acquired from different sources haven't had this....Must be something to do with being in Australia....Oh, and when I resell gold to people who want a few books, I always put it the plastic zip-lock bags...I think they're great, especially for silver leaf.

Incidentally, I was in China a couple of months ago and spent a few days in Nanjing, the home of gold leaf beating in China. I visited a couple of my suppliers, was given a tour of the production and treated like an honoured guest.

I've seen gold being made before in Australia, but the scale of their facilities in China makes for a different game. It was also pretty interesting to see some packets of a well-known German brand of gold leaf being produced at one factory...hahaha

Doug Bernhardt
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Re: Gold Leaf

Post by Doug Bernhardt » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:42 pm

Bruce.....would love to know which german brands you saw there as I'm wrestling with suppliers a bit right now. Have never been to visit a manufacturer as I'm sort of your "back woods" Canadian ;=)

Tony Segale
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Re: Gold Leaf

Post by Tony Segale » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:52 am

I've had good luck with my suppliers, but , perhaps I should price more, even though the customer pays for the high quality I demand.

I received an email from prince boakye today, he seems eager for my business, also, from Akim Oda community Ghana.
and he took that golden hair and made a sweater for baby bear.
http://www.tonysegale.com
http://www.tonysegale.wordpress.com

BruceJackson
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Re: Gold Leaf

Post by BruceJackson » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:31 pm

Hi Doug,

It would be unfair of me to post the name in a public space such as this forum.

My contact at this particular Chinese factory tells me that they often make leaf for various European gold leaf houses. I got them to make a batch of moon gold (60 books) for me last year, and he told me that they also supply that particular color to an Italian company.

I get the impression that this is simply business. One factory may not have stock or for whatever reason, may get other factories to produce a job lot for them occasionally. I'm sure the German company makes most of their own gold leaf, but perhaps they just needed a batch of this particular type and it suited them to outsource it.

The Chinese factories I visited are capable of making a very high quality product.

erik winkler
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Re: Gold Leaf

Post by erik winkler » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:30 am

I had a discussion with my Dutch goldleaf supplier who supplies Noris Goldleaf from Germany.
The situation discovered by Bruce in hina disturbed him in such sense that he traveled to Germany and had a meeting with all concerned.
He replied me in an email and I asked if it would be ok if I translated his email and placed it on this public forum.
I was asked to do so....

Hello Erik,

Just returned from a visit to Noris. Have extensively discussed the China story.
In China at present even the packaging copied Noris, I've seen counterfeit packaging and it is hardly distinguishable from real there are only very small differences.
Noris is little else to do, just only occasionally adjust packing ..

Busse company from Schwabach was once a reputable butcher gold. Top quality but on the expensive side.
There they began two years ago to no longer have to produce but to buy gold in China.
That was the first great trade, the company is now bankrupt because of the claims after approximately one year after arrived.

Your argument protecting technique of western gold leaf butcher I can follow. It will be that some are produced in China. Noris has assured me absolutely not to produce in China.

Of course it may be that the Chinese people eventually succeed in gold leaf to produce good, maybe they are already so far?
Noris has already been tested for gold in China from different manufacturers.
In all species of iron found gold.
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu

Robert Schwieger
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Location: Nebraska

Re: Gold Leaf

Post by Robert Schwieger » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:45 am

Not having the opportunity to test many of the different glass gold leafs I am curious what the basic differences are in the different karats and the leaf weights as it applies to (1) handling and (2) the outcome of the gild (less noticeable joints, etc.). Thank you experts. Bob

BruceJackson
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Re: Gold Leaf

Post by BruceJackson » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:16 am

I'm not too worried about gold leaf manufacturing being outsourced or re-badged. After all, what matters is the quality of the end product. Outsourcing, as a model of business, is standard in all other industries. The brand name is a commodity in itself. If the brand is going to have any meaning, it is in the interest of the brand owner to make sure the product is consistent. Whether it is made in one factory or another may not really matter.

Robert. There are really three main factors affecting the quality of gold leaf. One is the purity. if you are buying 23 carat, then you expect to get a minimum 96% gold. The rest is typically a combination of silver and copper. Usually a reduction in purity will simply mean a slightly different color and a slightly higher propensity to oxidize over time. So 22 carat may not look much different from 24 carat, but it will not be as good for long term use outside.

Weight. Often, you won't know what the weight of gold is, because most suppliers don't publish that. It is obvious you can make it more cheaply by using less gold and beating it thinner. You get what you pay for. If you buy cheap gold, expect it to be thin and fragile. Heavier gold is easier to work with, breaks less and needs less patching. Very thin gold (or poorly beaten gold) may have more holes and breaks. The weight is measured in grams used to make 1000 leaves. European standard is 15 grams. Cheap nasty stuff may be 12-13 grams. Personally, I specify and use 18 grams/1000 sheets.

The third factor is the quality of the beating. This is really where you see the difference from factory to factory. Good quality beating technique causes the gold to be brighter and more even. The lay lines will be less visible and won't have dull patches or broken areas. Poor beating (or thin gold) can result in dull gold or the corners of the leaf may be a little frayed or damaged. It can also have shudder marks or wrinkles. If you hold a piece up to the sky and look through it, you can see how even it is.

That being said...I always loved Ashcroft's hand-beaten gold, which is no longer made, precisely because of it's faults. It had a more interesting texture that you don't see in machine-beaten leaf.

Another issue can be too much powder, which can result in dull patches in the gild. Powder is used on the cutting pad, when cutting the gold into squares. It is also used in the book to prevent the gold from sticking to the paper. Another thing is the cutting...Sometimes, maybe on friday afternoons, the cutter gets lazy and doesn't cut the gold square. You end up with parallelograms.

Robert Schwieger
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Location: Nebraska

Re: Gold Leaf

Post by Robert Schwieger » Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:07 pm

Hello Dave,

Your current Lear project is, as usual spectacular. It is certainly a motivator. Your May 27 posting mentioned that you had purchased gold that was excellent and showed a minimum of overlapping. If you don't mind, was this 23, 23.5 or 24 carat loose leaf and was it the regular weight or the heavy leaf? Your expertise is truly appreciated. Thank you. Bob

DAVE SMITH
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Location: ENGLAND

Re: Gold Leaf

Post by DAVE SMITH » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:33 am

Thanks Robert . 23.5 regular is the gold I bought from Wrights, really good quality.

Dave

erik winkler
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Re: Gold Leaf

Post by erik winkler » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:10 am

The never ending story of goldleaf continues.
Eventhough this subject is dealt with before and many times, i would ask you kindly to give me your opninions.

I used german goldleaf from noris germany, then i used wrights of lym, both are good and i could say it is a price question.
Now I get an email from italy of a salesman from manetti italy.

I have seen may people on photo's posted here and in american sign related books using it.
Why is the brand so popular in the usa, was it the only goldleaf available for many years and people stick with their brand?
After reading the china relations with the original factories, I am a bit hasitant to experiment with new brands I do not know eventhough they have a build name for many years like Manetti.

They gave me this email:

Further to our telcon I provide you hereunder with our best quotation
for genuine goldleaves:

24 KT double mm80x80, loose eur. 22,50 / booklet of 25 leaves
22 KT double mm80x80, loose eur. 19,00 / booklet of 25 leaves

Prices are final prices. Due to the high increase/decrease of gold prices
we adjust our prices weekly.

Min. order eur. 400,00
Shipment costs eur. 30,00

As I told you I will be in the next week on a business trip in Holland and
if you are interested in a sample / colour chart or in case you need further information,
it would be pleasure for me to help you.



Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu

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