Glass Etching Cream

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erik winkler
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Glass Etching Cream

Post by erik winkler » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:56 am

Does anybody know why glass etching cream is only used for small glass plates or cups?
Why is this cream not used for larger panels like 3 feet x 3 feet?
Did anybody ever etched glass panels verticaly with this cream?

Is there anybody who wants to correspond (maybe in PM, because of the dangers involved with the chemicals) about the ingredients to make this cream?

Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
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Still in the learning phase ;-)
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Jerry Berg
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Re: Glass Etching Cream

Post by Jerry Berg » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:20 pm

Erik,

Etching cream doesn't "etch" any depth, just a light frost on the surface of the glass.
It doesn't produce a clear etch like HF either.

I have wondered though if it could be used to abraid the surface enough for hide glue
to grab on to. If it could be used in that situation we might have heard about it
by now though.... just a thought.

Jerry

Larry White
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Re: Glass Etching Cream

Post by Larry White » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:27 pm

Nah...etching cream will not leave a texture for glue chipping.

Mackle had a formula...poured it over the glass...instant frost....best talk to him.

-Aho!


.
Larry White
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pat mackle
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Re: Glass Etching Cream

Post by pat mackle » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:54 pm

There are so many variables in etching glass that I could write a book.
Etching cream is easy to do on smaller areas and glasses because it allows for little flaws that are not so greatly pronounced as those that would be in a large glass piece or window.
But to address this question directly in your situation let me say.
You can frost large flat glass with etching cream via screen printing, but the are inherent headaches.
First make certain that the cream is in good shape without crystals or thicker globs. I would stir it well and pour it through a filter screen if there is any question.
Then I would use a course mesh silk screen, blank or with an image and print off contact. Load your screen for the first pull, and decide if you may need to load it before each following pull. Use a squeegee that has a bit of a rounded edge, or pull at a lower angle for a good deposit. You will want to get a fair amount of cream down perfectly the first time or the cream will begin to dry, and the pattern of the screen mesh may become evident as a ghost in the finished frost after you rinse and clean the piece.
Make certain your glass is extremely clean because you only get one shot to get it right. (anytime you need to refrost an already frosted panel, you must treat it with a an acid/water mix to reset the surface to accept another frost.) Since the cream etches quickly, there is no time for it to penetrate the slightest oils or contamination.
Don't try to scrape up or reclaim the cream off the glass before rinsing. Any disturbance of the frosting crystals will usually show up in the panel.

In closing, when you weigh all that it takes to screen print with cream to frost glass panels and the chance for error, using the traditional white acid method seems the better route. Especially in the fact that the mixture can be used over and over.

Hope I didn't leave anything out, I could have written more, maybe a book.
Pat

erik winkler
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Re: Glass Etching Cream

Post by erik winkler » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:00 am

I was planning on using it as a alternative for my liquid white etching mix.
Not for screenprinting, but just as an alternative for the pooring method with a white etching mix.
Because I want to eliminate the pooring dilema and possible differences in rimple-effect if not done smoothly.
So if I would spatle the creme with a squezy on the glass and so eliminate dangers when pooring or depooring afterwards, by scoiping the stuff up with a plastic dustpan...
What do you think?

Erik
Last edited by erik winkler on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
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pat mackle
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Re: Glass Etching Cream

Post by pat mackle » Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:52 pm

So if I understand you correctly, what you are saying is you want to add something to thicken your traditional white acid mixture in order to make it less tricky in avoiding water marks and imperfections in the ground(white) tone, is that correct?
Two things to note.
Acid creams contain ammonium biflouride with some other material like barium which also thickens the mixture. Stamping acid is similar but just a bit thicker. This is a "quick frosting mixture" working within seconds to minutes on the glass.
French acid or "white acid" has no biflouride or thickeners and takes about an hour to frost the glass. It is very fluid and less strong formulation. If you decide to experiment with thickening white acid, you may find that you have to strengthen your acid, or leave it on for more than an hour. You may have to use barium as a thickener which I seem to recall is expensive and also think its sale is kind of restricted for some reason, but I don't remember exactly why.
Pat

PS: the key to avoiding the "rimple effect" with white acid is to use the proper "wide mouth" style pitcher to pour with onto the glass. And pour down low and keep moving. Otherwise the turbulence of the initial acid pouring onto the surface in spots will form the frosting crystals in a "memory" that will appear in the final frost as different tones or marks. When pouring the mixture, some embossers will hold a piece of glass under the flow from the pitcher and pour onto that glass plate to disperse the flow from directly contacting the glass panel. I myself find that pouring low, easy, and continuous across the panel does just fine.
Last edited by pat mackle on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

erik winkler
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Re: Glass Etching Cream

Post by erik winkler » Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:00 pm

I will just do some experiments...
Thanks pat.
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
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Lee Littlewood
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Re: Glass Etching Cream

Post by Lee Littlewood » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:17 pm

Thank you, Pat. I will forward the info to a guy in our shop who uses the cream in his restoration pieces (beer ads, mostly). One thing I have heard him complain about is having to completely clean his screen before printing Etchall; he says that the frost will show any ghost images from the screen.

A reminiscence, if I may:
when I was trying to get started with lettering of some sort - I hadn't found the sign world yet, but I'd done a couple years of so-so calligraphy - I found that I could use Etchall on wine glasses. I used a metal nib and a candle, and could dip into the wax and do a few letters on the glass before the wax thickened and I'd go back to the hot wax pool, or heat the nib in the flame to get the wax flowing. Then I could paint the Etchall over the area and in a few minutes wash everything off with hot water. If you taped up the area you could get a little shield shape... Anyway, I shopped some samples around to wine merchants and marriage consultants - not a bite. One order from a friend for initials on a teapot, so I got a nice clear Pyrex teapot and tried it out. and tried again, and again - not a mark. I wrote Etchall, and they said that Pyrex was too hard for it (duh). I'm guessing it is not the temperature that pyrex is smelted at that makes the difference, but the way the borosilicate glass is structured that keeps it from being reactive. Maybe.

And yeah, we tried it for glue chipping, but it isn't a deep enough bite I guess.
where am i? Now, when i need me...

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