SIGN SUBSTRATES

[Doug Christie]

As I'm a complete nube at this here sign writing business and eager to learn as much as I can in as short a time as possible, I humbly ask you for guidance once again. I've got my equipment together which includes 2 sandblast cabinets, 3 pressure pots, 2 cutters and a world of possibilities. I also have most smaller items, paint brushes, knifes etc. So far, I've really only thought about signs in the reverse glass style, other than the traditional vinyl on coreplast, etc.

So I've decided to incorporate wood in the mix. Or is that a dead end? If you do use wood, do you buy sign blanks, or is that to costly. Is doing it all from scratch the better road to follow? I wait patiently for your replies.

[Doug Bernhardt]

Man....you've got it bad. Curious curious curious!! It seems to me that you have a world of discovery and experiment in front of you. I'm a big wood guy as I decided some years ago to stick to natural materials and see if clients like the look that goes with it. The jury is still out on wether that was a good choice.....I guess it depends on what you want in the long run. Do you want to run a profitable business or are you willing to try running a business based on ideals? Profitable or not? Do you have kids that need an education and a retirement fund that relies on what you do right now? Choose as you see fit.

[Tyler Tim]

You really can't pick a substrate without considering the the client. And reading a client is a art in it's self. For example... I got a call about a sign I did and the guy wanted the same type said he got my name from client. After talking to him at him place and taking notes .... I designed a nice sign stop back by he loved the design when final cost came up he gasped. Why so much..? Well Ceder... Redwood and Ironwork you know time = money. Seems he really wanted the high quality at low cost . I told him I'd have to rework the materials to fit in his price range. Meaning MDO and pressure treated post. But as far as redwood panels I've always built up my own. So add bar clamps to your list of must haves... if you plan on building your own. Oh and a jointer planner.... biscuit cutter. You know more tools

[Doug Christie]

Man....you've got it bad. Curious curious curious!!

You got that right Doug. All I've done in the last 6 mths is research,research,research! Need.............more............input........!

So add bar clamps to your list of must haves... if you plan on building your own. Oh and a jointer planner.... biscuit cutter. You know more tools

TT.....I was at Wally World yesterday, looking at all their pretty tools. Do you sandblast your cedar signs?

Thx

[Tyler Tim]

Doug if your going to start buying tools and your looking to save cash on them... find a Harbor Freight near you. For bar clamps and disposable hand tools you can't beat there prices. Larger tools like lathes and planers can be gotten there as well. I mean 99% of all tools are now imported ( but that's another thread for another board ). As for the wood signs I'll combine redwood and ceder on a sign for the contrast either filler caps for double sided sign or post and pole covers. But most all my blasted signs have been redwood. I'll have to dig around for the photos I just repainted (well in April) some blasted redwood sign I built in 92.

The best input is to make something... anything. You can read all the net but putting paint to panel is far more rewarding both in knowledge and spirit.

Tim

[Doug Christie]

Doug if your going to start buying tools and your looking to save cash on them... find a Harbor Freight near you. For bar clamps and disposable hand tools you can't beat there prices.
Tim

I was at Home Depot yesterday too. They seem to have pretty good pricing on their Roybi brand. It's definitely not pro quality, but neither am I.
We don't have a harbor freight here. The closest is a Princess Auto. I'll check them out. Thanks for the reply.

[Tyler Tim]

Ok your on the North side of the Great Lakes. Princess Auto is the same as Harbor Freight.
You'll enjoy your first visit.


Tim

[Doug Bernhardt]

Hi again Doug. If you're looking for materials like smaltz and powders and all that cool stuff you can't go wrong with Canadian Signcrafters if you're in Canada, or if you're in the States Ron and Kristi Purcell at Letterheads sign supplies is who you need. Both these companies ship anywhere. If you need large quantities looking into direct distribution is the other option. Sepp Leaf in NY and Art Essentials also in NY supply some of these in similar materials although I wouldn't think they are for you. You'd need to know your stuff and and order what would amount to a lifetime supply for most people. Hope that answers the question.

[joe cieslowski]

"I've only thought about signs in the reverse glass style"

"I've decided to add wood to the mix. Or is that a dead end?"

It seems to me that the first thing you might want to do is focus on one thing at a time. Each different type of sign has it's own process and different tools and skills are required. Many will take years to master.

My best advise is to look around your community and determine what type of signs are desired. The first thing you are going to need, to make a business out of this, is you are going to need a customer base. Without that,you are just throwing your money and time away..... IMHO.

I suppose that the first thing any business plan needs is to identify a customer base and how to satisfy it given your situation (Tools, skills, work space etc.).

In 35 years in business, I've only done one thing (carve). I do it well and my customers pay me well for it.

I wish you well and hope my advise will be helpful.

Joe

[Doug Christie]

Hi again Doug. If you're looking for materials like smaltz and powders and all that cool stuff you can't go wrong with Canadian Signcrafters if you're in Canada, or if you're in the States Ron and Kristi Purcell at Letterheads sign supplies

Thx again Doug. I was on their (Canadian Signcrafters) website, along with every other one, but I found their prices high, at least on what I was looking for (smatz,mica powders, etc). They were almost 2x the price Letterhead supply was on the mica powder sample pack. So I got it from the Purcells instead.

[Doug Christie]

Thanks Joe. I appreciate what you're saying. I've been my own boss since the early 80's, just not in this field. I'm sorry that I'm seemingly going at this gung ho without direction but that's how I do it. If I get interested in something, I want/need to know everything about it or I'll go mad trying My customer base will be the general public for small wooden signs and etched/carved glass and higher priced gilded signs will be earmarked for businesses and high end consumers.

I went over to your website Joe and I gotta say. You have some mad skills. Beautiful work! There's only one thing wrong.....now I want to start carving wood!

Here's the competition: http://www.signaturesignstudio.com/
Doug

[joe cieslowski]

Doug,

Thanks for the compliment. I think doing small house markers might be a prudent way to start.

First, there are a lot more people with houses than with businesses and most are willing to spend good money for a high end sign because it is for THEIR home......they just gotta have something nice!

You'll get a chance to practice on something that won't consume a lot of time and you will get a chance to get the production process down.......quickly. You will learn just as fast on a small sign as you will a bigger one.

I also make small ornaments for the signs......carved, then molded and cast in plastic......it's a great up sell and you will have a chance to carve images. Again, you will learn just as fast on small images..... it will also reduce the "frustrations" as you learn to carve.

I've posted pics of my display to give you an idea what I'm up to. BTW, small house and property markers are the bulk of my business now.

Also, most of them are carved in HDU with acrylic paint finishes.

Now get carvin!!!

Joe

[joe cieslowski]

Here is my latest ornament (with mold and casting) and the knife that I used to make it.......the knife is also the tool that I use to carve all the numbers and letters up to 4" high.

You don't need a big investment in tools to get er done!

Joe

[Doug Christie]

Doug,

I think doing small house markers might be a prudent way to start.

First, there are a lot more people with houses than with businesses and most are willing to spend good money for a high end sign because it is for THEIR home......they just gotta have something nice!

You'll get a chance to practice on something that won't consume a lot of time and you will get a chance to get the production process down.......quickly. You will learn just as fast on a small sign as you will a bigger one.

Joe

I started looking for a "profitable hobby" to get into last winter. I came across a website called "Profitable Hobbies". Of course.....it's all about sand carving and the like. I said, "I can do that" and absolutely love what can be done with sand and glass in the hands of an artisan. Next thing I know, I on THE LETTERHEADS website and went absolutely gaga for it. I ordered fonts, panel, and ribbons and was going to get right into it, but for one small problem. I couldn't figure out how to get the darn things to open up in a graphics program. So I put it down, figuring I must be some kind of idiot and proceeded with doing glass carving. But what I really wanted to do was the reverse glass signs of yesteryear. So I eventually found out how to get the fonts and panels etc. to work and the rest, as they say, is history.

My game plan was to do pet grave markers, address markers and the like. Maybe I should stick to my game plan then. Those pretty glass signs are trying to turn my head in a different direction.

[Doug Christie]

Here is my latest ornament (with mold and casting) and the knife that I used to make it.......the knife is also the tool that I use to carve all the numbers and letters up to 4" high.

You don't need a big investment in tools to get er done!

Joe

I did pretty good on collecting tools for this venture. I got 60 gal compressor, 2 blasting cabinets, 3 pressure pots, a vinyl cutter. letralite, 2 rotary carvers and a few other odds and ends for right around $2000.00. I see you have a supply of bandages wrapped around your knife for when you get an owie.

Thanks again.