Fast Gold Size

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Dan Seese
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Fast Gold Size

Post by Dan Seese » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:59 pm

OK, I know the topic of gold size has been discussed here a bit. I've done some searching about it on the forum but given the constant changes in formulas, I'm wondering what the latest is regarding recommended fast size for gold leaf.

I've heard some bad things about One Shot Fast Dry and my supply of that has pretty much run out anyway.

Any good or bad experiences within the past year or two where you could steer me toward or away from a particular product?

Thanks!
Dan
"The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne."
Geoffrey Chaucer (c. 1340 - 1400)

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Mike Jackson
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Re: Fast Gold Size

Post by Mike Jackson » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:48 pm

Hi Dan,
We have been using One Shot Fast Size for the past few projects. On the plus side, it has a fairly reliable gild time at about 3-4 hours. On the down side, the window to gild is relatively short compared to the LeFranc slow sizes. We liked LeFranc because of the longer window, but we never knew if the initial window was going to be 6 hours or 18 hours from application. Gilding at 2:00 in the morning was never a great scenario!

Hope this helps,
Mike Jackson
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Roderick Treece
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Re: Fast Gold Size

Post by Roderick Treece » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:35 pm

One shot fast size has turn out to be pretty bad. It is great to gild with but once the can is open it skins over and get's thick quick. A pint doesn't last very long. I really like Ron Percels quick size. Very happy with it.

Tyler Tim
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Re: Fast Gold Size

Post by Tyler Tim » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:43 pm

I've had good luck with Rolco Quick Dry Gold Size... just had to purchase a new can and from what I can see it's that same stuff I purchased back in the late 80's. Did a couple test came to tack in about 1 hour for copper leaf... 1-1/2 hours for gold... stayed workable for about 2 3/4 hours. Temp in the shop was about 70ish.
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Larry White
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Re: Fast Gold Size

Post by Larry White » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:51 am

I'll second Rod's recommendation on Ron Percell's newly formulated quick size. Ron's size is a lot better than the one-shot.
Larry White
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Rich Hawthorne
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Re: Fast Gold Size

Post by Rich Hawthorne » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:11 pm

I agree with Roderick and Larry. Purcell's new fast size is very good. However, my can has started to get noticeably thick after about six months so when I use it I add a couple of drops of turpentine to thin it out and get it to flow easily. That works well and I can detect no harmful effect on the size as a result of thinning it slightly. I still have a half-pint of 1-shot which I use for blending mica powders but I don't use it on gold anymore.

Dan Seese
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Re: Fast Gold Size

Post by Dan Seese » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:13 pm

Thanks for your help, guys.

Mike, I've liked One Shot in the past and found that here in Colorado I could sometimes gild within about 15 minutes! And the window would stay open surprisingly long. Of course it dries in the can quickly once you open it and I've heard some horror stories about it recently. Just this week Brian Oliver from Paxton Signs here in Fort Collins called trying to figure out why it won't stick to the glass. Makes me a bit worried about ordering more for myself.

Have never used Rolco.

I'll give Ron a call right now and try out his Gilders Fast Size!
Dan
"The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne."
Geoffrey Chaucer (c. 1340 - 1400)

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John Studden
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Re: Fast Gold Size

Post by John Studden » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:53 pm

Ron's Fast Size is far superior to One Shot, better open time & flows nicely........If you add a little 12 hour to it you will have a good 2-3 hour size also, breath into the can when replacing the lid, this will slow the skinning...........a little.
John Studden
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Dan Seese
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Re: Fast Gold Size

Post by Dan Seese » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:05 pm

Thanks, John.
My gold size is on the way. Ron said you used it for the Disney project & it worked well for you.
I still have some of the old formula LeFranc slow size I can add in at will.
I always blow some carbon dioxide from my lungs into the can before closing. Learned that trick from Rick.
Let me know when you're coming to Fort Collins again. I'll put a log on the fire.
Dan
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Mike Jackson
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Re: Fast Gold Size

Post by Mike Jackson » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:06 am

Our can of One Shot Gold Size is fairly new. Still works fine for us. I have lots of size here, mainly from Steven Parrish's old supply. And, I haven't tried any of Ron Percell's size. After hearing the recommendations here, I might order a can someday.

Going back to the issue of the One Shot drying in the can, we still use the marble technique. After pooring out what we need, we drop a few marbles in the can to bring the contents back up to the top of the can, eliminating the mass of air above the fill line. I read that tip here on this site long ago and it works quite well.
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Doug Bernhardt
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Re: Fast Gold Size

Post by Doug Bernhardt » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:48 am

I use both but since trying Purcell's have pretty much switched to that as well. Noel Weber gave me some he had last spring and have quite a bit on hand now. With all the varnishes etc I also get the oxygen out of the can by breathing into it....thanx Rick...and will flip it over if possible, and let it skin over on the bottom. Back to the slow size. Have been using Luna (german) for a few years and like it a heap.

erik winkler
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Re: Fast Gold Size

Post by erik winkler » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:00 pm

This will be the last time I will post this:
Forget all other sizes, use Kolner goldsize.
It is sold in yellow as in transparant.
One hour drying time one houre open time, but....... you can re-open it with brushing it with an activator.
The goldsize and activator is sold in America among others by Sepp leaf New York.
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joe cieslowski
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Re: Fast Gold Size

Post by joe cieslowski » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:04 pm

I've posted this on other threads and I'll do it again.

To keep your size or any other paint from skinning over..........don't open it!!!! :)

I just put a sheet metal screw in the lid near the edge (use one with a hex head).

Tilt the can over in one hand and remove the screw and squeeze out the amount of size you need in a cup (old oil can style).

Replace screw BEFORE tipping the can back up. The air that does get in the can must pass thru the size/paint and picks up vehicle and never skins over.

The 1/2 pint can of Rolco has been refilled from the pint can using the same method.

If you use this method, the size will keep the same properties right down to the bottom of the can......

Dittos on the Wrights of Lynn gold leaf.

Ive had good luck with the Rolco fast size.......1 1/2 hr to tack with a one hour window.

The Rolco Artisan slow size that I have doesn't dry. Period.
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Lee Littlewood
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Re: Fast Gold Size

Post by Lee Littlewood » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:19 pm

I like the 1Shot fast size for matte centers on glass because it dries clearer than Rolco, and since it dries quickly you can rub it with steel wool the next day (maybe the same day, I dunno). But for surface gilding it has an awkwardly narrow window to work in; I have always used the Rolco for that and I really should try some others.
For surface work that is going to be away from abuse I would always choose slow size. Easier work window, nice flowout, I think better longevity. I have always used LeFranc & Burgeois and gilded at 3 days to a week (how's that for an open window?), but I had to get the new formula this year and was worried (another reason to have tried other possibilities). I did a test of my old can and a new (white label, I think) can, and the new one was better than the old (!). Same open time, but a distinctly brighter burnish - I could read large newsprint in the reflected in the gild after 24 hours, while the old formula was hazier, reflected edges not easy to read. Now it'll turn out that it causes your hair to fall out or something, but for now it seems like the Newer is Better (hard to believe).

Nancy Thorn of Gold Leaf Restoration just gave me a rave review of the Kolner size, and she throws a lot more gold than I do. But she also thinks that shellac is good for everything up to stopping Arctic warming, so what does she know...?
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Dan Seese
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Re: Fast Gold Size

Post by Dan Seese » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:55 pm

Some really great tips here, both on the types of size to use as well as techniques to keep it from skinning over - which was my main complaint with One Shot.

Joe - I'm going to try the bolt in the lid trick.

Lee, I still have some LeFranc old formula 12-18 hour, which I love, and have been worried about getting more since I know they've had some bumps along the road as they've changed the formulas. This is encouraging. And regarding your comment:
Lee Littlewood wrote:Now it'll turn out that it causes your hair to fall out or something, but for now it seems like the Newer is Better (hard to believe).
I don't think that's something I'll need to worry about!
Dan
"The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne."
Geoffrey Chaucer (c. 1340 - 1400)

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Tyler Tim
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Re: Fast Gold Size

Post by Tyler Tim » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:00 am

These are what I use...

Image
Sure I paint thing for my amusement and then offer them for sale. A brushslinger could whither en die from lack of creativity in this plastic town my horse threw a shoe in. :shock:

Rich Hawthorne
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Re: Fast Gold Size

Post by Rich Hawthorne » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:38 pm

A couple of years ago I was experimenting with transparent inks and I came across a product used to prevent skinning of the ink between uses. The ink was solvent based and when I bought a selection of the the gloss enamel inks I also bought some of the anti-skinning agent. The anti-skinning agent (GLE-1950) was hard to get and required a special order from Inktech as it is not well known around here as far as I could tell. I used it on my ink as directed and it worked well. So, one day I started using it on my cans of 1-shot paint. Every time I open the can I just stir it into to the paint and away I go. Likewise, when putting the can away I spritz some of the anti-skinning agent on top of the paint and close the lid.

I've been doing that now for two years and my 1-shot paint no longer has crusts of dried out paint on top when I open the can. It works and I can detect no change at all to the paint (YMMV). Because I use a lot of pearlescent I need to stir the paint well in order to put the pearl in suspension in the paint. So a screw on the lid would not work well for me since I have to take the lid off to stir the paint.

I have not tried it on gold size as I am concerned it may alter the size somehow and am loath to find that out the hard way. I do recommend this product for paint though. It works great as far as I am concerned. It is hard to get though but worth the effort.
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Marius Mellebye
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Re: Fast Gold Size

Post by Marius Mellebye » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:17 pm

This was very interesting.. I have been using a can of One Shot gold size for a very long time, and it has been good to me, but recently I had to buy another one, and I was thinking there must have been something wrong with it, until I read this, as it got that thick skin and become very thick very fast.. but reading what others have experienced as well, it explains.. :-)

Unfortanly (as far as I know) One Shot is the only fast dry gold size I know where to get in Norway.. Have been wanting to test Rolco for a while as my friend Jeff McCann advised me to use when leafing motorcycle gas tanks..

His advice was using Rolco with a little of One Shot Imitation Gold enamel.

Can anyone advise me where to get Ron Percell´s fast size? Any online shop which sending overseas? It would be cool to try out some other than one shot.. :-)
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Rich Hawthorne
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Re: Fast Gold Size

Post by Rich Hawthorne » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:02 am

Marius Mellebye wrote:...

Can anyone advise me where to get Ron Percell´s fast size? Any online shop which sending overseas? It would be cool to try out some other than one shot.. :-)

http://www.letterheadsignsupply.com/

I don't know if he does International shipping but you can try.

Marius Mellebye
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Re: Fast Gold Size

Post by Marius Mellebye » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:26 am

Store says: ​"SHIPS UPS GROUND ONLY!" Hmm.. they are the only ones that sells Ron Percell´s fast size?

I have this US address shipping company I can use, but they only ships it to Norway if they get the MSDS charts of what the size contains..
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