Tinting between glass and leaf

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Trip Bauer
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 1:05 pm
Location: North Florida

Tinting between glass and leaf

Post by Trip Bauer » Thu May 22, 2014 1:34 pm

I've made it 43 pages back on the forum, but didn't really find a solid answer as to brands that have been tested and liked for tinting between glass and leaf when going beyond asphaltum. Letterheadsignsupply is backordered on the transparent inks, I'll still pick them up when they come in, but wanted to try some things out in the interim.

Found a couple of artist oils, one that caught my eye was Grumbacher professional/pre-tested which lists pure pigments and linseed oil, as well as a similar from Windsor and Newton (though Grumbacher touts lightfastness directly). This is what I'm looking for, yes? I realize they're not transparent, but this is the type formulation that can be used to tint size and varnishes used, correct?

Trip

Danny Baronian
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Re: Tinting between glass and leaf

Post by Danny Baronian » Thu May 22, 2014 2:08 pm

Trip,

the transparent inks are regular transparent screen printing inks by Nazdar, and other screen ink suppliers. They are the most resistant to effects of UV.

Most only need a small amount of ink, the minimum order for screen inks are in quarts.

Have you checked out Bruce Jackson's site? If not, do: http://www.goldreverre.com/index.php

Peruse the whole site, but for info on your question look specifically under resources / techniques.

Check out his work; wide range of applications by a great craftsman!

The site contains a wealth of information. Hopefully you find it useful.

Danny
Danny Baronian
Baronian Mfg.
CNC Routing & Fabrication
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Roderick Treece
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Re: Tinting between glass and leaf

Post by Roderick Treece » Thu May 22, 2014 4:55 pm

Trip,
Danny might not know much but he's right on with this info. Nazdar makes transparent ink for screening but you should be sitting down when you hear the prices. If you can wait for LH sign you'll save some money. Most other paint in not transparent enough unless you use an automotive product but price will be high to. Good luck.

RT

Trip Bauer
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 1:05 pm
Location: North Florida

Re: Tinting between glass and leaf

Post by Trip Bauer » Thu May 22, 2014 5:53 pm

Thanks guys!

I have been through that site, really neat ideas and techniques, I'm feeling a touch overwhelmed with inspiration...

As I said, I was still going to order those from them, but I'd seen a number of mentions of other products as well, just not specific names or lines. I mentioned in an earlier post, from now through January I'm not trying to sell or contract any item or piece, but I hope to work through a bunch of practice pieces and samples (thus freeing me up to work at whatever pace I need to in order to learn). Operating costs are paid for the year and we do still have cut and stick work coming and going.

Starting the first piece this weekend hopefully, a transom for over the door on my porch, using one of the Saratoga ornaments. That one is just gold and black on glass, outline and shadow, but I did order two pieces with the intention of chipping the second one after the shop renovation is done.

Wanted to start trying some things out, as the next piece will be the family coat of arms for the oval glass in the front door, that's where the color comes in. I've got time, but figured I could be trying some things out between now and when they're re-stocked (Kristi said it shouldn't be too long).

Roderick, I owe you a personal thanks, your YouTube video was the deciding factor when I sat down with my wife and told her I wanted to take the shop in a direction different than we had been planning and working towards for the last 8 months. Up until that point, she wasn't too wild about the idea.

Trip

Roderick Treece
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Re: Tinting between glass and leaf

Post by Roderick Treece » Thu May 22, 2014 9:44 pm

Hi Trip,
Thanks so much for that. I sent you a private message.

Larry White
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Re: Tinting between glass and leaf

Post by Larry White » Fri May 23, 2014 11:17 am

I've had very good results using transparent artist oil colors, like for fine oil painting.
If you look on the tube, it'll say "Transparent". Use only the transparent variety.
Semi-transparent and opaque types won't work. Also, on the tube, will be a color fastness rating. Get the highest rating available. When creating the glaze, put some of the paint into a small cup and work it down into a liquid with turpentine. Add this colorized liquid to your medium. Be sure there are no lumps of the paint in your glaze, or it will cause unwanted spotting.
neptuneN.jpg
neptuneN.jpg (117.91 KiB) Viewed 4273 times
The glaze airbrushed in the lower section of these letters was done with transparent artist oil colors and looks as good today as when I first did it some 25 years ago.
Larry White
That's enough for now... it's gettin' late
Town Of Machine
http://www.walljewelry.com

Trip Bauer
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 1:05 pm
Location: North Florida

Re: Tinting between glass and leaf

Post by Trip Bauer » Fri May 23, 2014 11:42 am

That's a prime example of what I'm after! I'll have to look through what's available locally, I'm banging my head on the keyboard trying to search, I either get unrelated results or results that indicate transparent but nothing else (synthetic, water based, etc.) The ones I mentioned were the only ones that indicated lightfast and what was in them... Is there a brand or line from a brand known to work well?

Trip

megan child
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Location: Country NSW, Australia

Re: Tinting between glass and leaf

Post by megan child » Sun May 25, 2014 11:16 pm

Hi Larry,

I've not done that before could you go through the steps for me.

Pleeeeeease
meg :D
Meg
I don't make mistakes, I just have learnings.

:p

Roderick Treece
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Re: Tinting between glass and leaf

Post by Roderick Treece » Mon May 26, 2014 5:28 pm

Trip,
You could also look for off set printing ink from ww.Vansonink.com. They make transparent printing ink.
Megan, After you finish everything and have open windows you can take a clear base like Fiberseal , frog juice, One shot clears and mix the transparent ink into the clear a little of each at a time until you get a well mix batch. You may need to strain it if there is any sedement. Then air brush the windows till you get the desired affect. Then water gild or oil gil gild with white gold or mirror it.

Trip Bauer
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 1:05 pm
Location: North Florida

Re: Tinting between glass and leaf

Post by Trip Bauer » Mon May 26, 2014 6:27 pm

Thanks! I picked up some transparent colors from Windsor & Newton's top end line (forgot the name, not in the shop) to try out as well. Hopefully the last order I put in will be here soon, had to ship ground as it has the back-up paints and sizes and whatnot in it... also happens to have the white gold for that piece, so I'm a bit stalled out and not really even able to do some testing yet.

megan child
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:46 pm
Location: Country NSW, Australia

Re: Tinting between glass and leaf

Post by megan child » Mon May 26, 2014 7:02 pm

Thanks Roderick,

that's a new trick I'll try over the weekend

Meg
I don't make mistakes, I just have learnings.
:P
Meg
I don't make mistakes, I just have learnings.

:p

BruceJackson
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Re: Tinting between glass and leaf

Post by BruceJackson » Mon May 26, 2014 10:45 pm

I like mixing glazes using gold size as the medium.

Transparent printing inks give a very clean color but you need to be aware of lightfastness.

I have one product that is a favorite. Not sure if it's still available or where you'd buy it now, because I bought a whole range of colors in bottles many years ago and haven't needed to buy more. It's called "Decorfin" by dutch firm "Royal Talens". It was made as an imitation stained glass paint, primarily aimed at hobbyists. Some similar products hobby paints are not very lightfast, by the Royal Talens Decorfin is a superior paint with excellent lightfastness. It dries fairly quickly and is quite brittle on it's own, but mixes well into goldsize varnish. I first started using it maybe 15- 20 years ago, and one window, which faced the afternoon sun was still bright red after over ten years of sun exposure! It actually lasted much better than regular signwriting enamel red.

Never had any problem with it

Larry White
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Re: Tinting between glass and leaf

Post by Larry White » Tue May 27, 2014 9:53 am

My approach is a little different than Rod's.
The problem with Rod's method, is if you water gild the 23K brightlines first,
you then have to get the excess gold out of the glue chipped letter centers...
arduous at best...

My approach was, after the glue chipping, I applied a clear vinyl mask
over the lettering and re-cut out the chipped letter centers. I then
mixed up the glaze and airbrushed the colored fade. When dry, I removed
the mask and water gilded the over the glue chipped centers with 12K
gold, backed, then cleaned off the excess, then the 23K bright line was
added. After that the black outline and shade were done.

I've used this style on a few different things which always came out
looking pretty good.
Larry White
That's enough for now... it's gettin' late
Town Of Machine
http://www.walljewelry.com

Tyler Tim
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:12 am

Re: Tinting between glass and leaf

Post by Tyler Tim » Wed May 28, 2014 11:58 am

Larry White wrote:I've had very good results using transparent artist oil colors, like for fine oil painting.
If you look on the tube, it'll say "Transparent". Use only the transparent variety.
Semi-transparent and opaque types won't work. Also, on the tube, will be a color fastness rating. Get the highest rating available. When creating the glaze, put some of the paint into a small cup and work it down into a liquid with turpentine. Add this colorized liquid to your medium. Be sure there are no lumps of the paint in your glaze, or it will cause unwanted spotting.
neptuneN.jpg
The glaze airbrushed in the lower section of these letters was done with transparent artist oil colors and looks as good today as when I first did it some 25 years ago.
So something like... HOLBEIN Artists Oil Colors?

Thanks Tim
Sure I paint thing for my amusement and then offer them for sale. A brushslinger could whither en die from lack of creativity in this plastic town my horse threw a shoe in. :shock:

BruceJackson
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Re: Tinting between glass and leaf

Post by BruceJackson » Thu May 29, 2014 3:01 am

HOLBEIN Artists Oil Colors will work well as will Windsor and Newton or other similar brands.

You just need to add some medium as a binder, because on their own, these oil colors are almost pure pigment with just enough oil to make a paste.

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