base coat for gold size...

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vance galliher
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base coat for gold size...

Post by vance galliher » Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:26 pm

having senior moment...normally use oil base paint before applying size, but will acrylic paint work ? or does it really matter ? thanks
vance
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Dan Seese
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Re: base coat for gold size...

Post by Dan Seese » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:06 pm

Hi Vance,
I've used gold size over acrylic paint MANY times. No problem.
I think you just want to be sure the paint is cured - or at least dry, depending on how thick the acrylic paint is. I've applied gold size over top Matthews paint, which is an acrylic urethane - catalyzed so the curing time is fairly quick. I've also used it a lot over top water-based acrylic and have never experienced failure.
In fact, I apply gold size over acrylic paint more than I do over oil-based paint.
Dan
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Doug Bernhardt
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Re: base coat for gold size...

Post by Doug Bernhardt » Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:46 am

Thar ya go. The secret is down to a hard dry non-absorbant surface. I'm a big fan of the new acrylic clears and I'll do my entire sign in oils and put 2 or 3 coats of clear down and then size and gild. Never had a problem.

Rick Sacks
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Re: base coat for gold size...

Post by Rick Sacks » Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:16 pm

What are the acrylic clears that you're speaking of? Are they automotive products? Are they sign products? Do they require spraying? Can they be applied with a brush or roller? Do they have the UV protections?
Mendocino, California
"Where the redwoods meet the Sea"

Doug Bernhardt
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Re: base coat for gold size...

Post by Doug Bernhardt » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:34 pm

Hi Rick. I've been using (and am VERY pleased with) painting the sign as usual....a coat of Star Clear coating is also a Sikkens product I believe followed by another coat (or more) acrylic from "Finitec" (which is a Montreal Company) then gilding gold. Any lower carats of 16k or 12k are of course under the clears. They dry very quickly and can put on 2 a day no problem and use either a foam brush or spray. Have done both. I also have a test piece out which I'll check once the snow is gone of Sikkens stained solid wood with just the 2 types of acrylic clear on them and to be honest they looked really good after 2 years.

Rick Sacks
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Re: base coat for gold size...

Post by Rick Sacks » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:22 pm

Is the Sikkens a urethane? And is the acrylic that you put over the Sikkens water based?
Seems there is much to learn about the new paint technology. Some might argue that these clears aren't paint?
Mendocino, California
"Where the redwoods meet the Sea"

Lee Littlewood
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Re: base coat for gold size...

Post by Lee Littlewood » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:10 pm

Any clearcoat that can take 2 years outdoors in Montreal is of interest.

But a clear coat over wood has always felt like a layer waiting to break down or de-laminate. This is just from the being clear: sunlight will go through the whole film (and if metal is under the clear, sunlight will bounce off and go through the clear a second time) and the ultraviolet portions of sunlight will break chemical bonds. Pigmented coatings avoid this problem by having opacity; so the sunlight degradation is on the out side of the film - as the outer layer slowly breaks down it exposes a fresh under layer (this is 'chalking', and it is a Good Thing).
So if manufacturers have made a clear film that can withstand sunlight, that is wonderful.

Of course (secondary question) wood outdoors will eventually expand and contract, so the film must also be somewhat elastic. A good clearcoat is a tricky business.
where am i? Now, when i need me...

Rick Sacks
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Re: base coat for gold size...

Post by Rick Sacks » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:45 pm

Lee,
The carved mahogany sign in front of my shop has been untouched for 27 years.
I sprayed many coats of Nason automotive clear on it and then did the gilding and outlining.
The clear still has plenty of integrity. That dark Philippine mahogany is now very blond from all these south facing years.
The back side is still dark.
Mendocino, California
"Where the redwoods meet the Sea"

Doug Bernhardt
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Re: base coat for gold size...

Post by Doug Bernhardt » Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:50 pm

Both the clears are acrylic water based. You'd have to ask Kent what the chemicals are as the Star Coating was/is a chromatic product

Rick Sacks
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Re: base coat for gold size...

Post by Rick Sacks » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:12 pm

but Doug, why two different clears? Is there a reason for the order ?
Mendocino, California
"Where the redwoods meet the Sea"

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