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 Post subject: base coat for gold size...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:38 pm
Posts: 297
Location: springfield, or.
having senior moment...normally use oil base paint before applying size, but will acrylic paint work ? or does it really matter ? thanks

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 Post subject: Re: base coat for gold size...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm
Posts: 313
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Hi Vance,
I've used gold size over acrylic paint MANY times. No problem.
I think you just want to be sure the paint is cured - or at least dry, depending on how thick the acrylic paint is. I've applied gold size over top Matthews paint, which is an acrylic urethane - catalyzed so the curing time is fairly quick. I've also used it a lot over top water-based acrylic and have never experienced failure.
In fact, I apply gold size over acrylic paint more than I do over oil-based paint.

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 Post subject: Re: base coat for gold size...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:46 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:29 am
Posts: 1002
Location: Ottawa Canada
Thar ya go. The secret is down to a hard dry non-absorbant surface. I'm a big fan of the new acrylic clears and I'll do my entire sign in oils and put 2 or 3 coats of clear down and then size and gild. Never had a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: base coat for gold size...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:17 pm
Posts: 76
Location: Mendocino, California
What are the acrylic clears that you're speaking of? Are they automotive products? Are they sign products? Do they require spraying? Can they be applied with a brush or roller? Do they have the UV protections?

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 Post subject: Re: base coat for gold size...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:29 am
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Location: Ottawa Canada
Hi Rick. I've been using (and am VERY pleased with) painting the sign as usual....a coat of Star Clear coating is also a Sikkens product I believe followed by another coat (or more) acrylic from "Finitec" (which is a Montreal Company) then gilding gold. Any lower carats of 16k or 12k are of course under the clears. They dry very quickly and can put on 2 a day no problem and use either a foam brush or spray. Have done both. I also have a test piece out which I'll check once the snow is gone of Sikkens stained solid wood with just the 2 types of acrylic clear on them and to be honest they looked really good after 2 years.


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 Post subject: Re: base coat for gold size...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:17 pm
Posts: 76
Location: Mendocino, California
Is the Sikkens a urethane? And is the acrylic that you put over the Sikkens water based?
Seems there is much to learn about the new paint technology. Some might argue that these clears aren't paint?

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 Post subject: Re: base coat for gold size...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:36 pm
Posts: 206
Location: Portland, Oregon
Any clearcoat that can take 2 years outdoors in Montreal is of interest.

But a clear coat over wood has always felt like a layer waiting to break down or de-laminate. This is just from the being clear: sunlight will go through the whole film (and if metal is under the clear, sunlight will bounce off and go through the clear a second time) and the ultraviolet portions of sunlight will break chemical bonds. Pigmented coatings avoid this problem by having opacity; so the sunlight degradation is on the out side of the film - as the outer layer slowly breaks down it exposes a fresh under layer (this is 'chalking', and it is a Good Thing).
So if manufacturers have made a clear film that can withstand sunlight, that is wonderful.

Of course (secondary question) wood outdoors will eventually expand and contract, so the film must also be somewhat elastic. A good clearcoat is a tricky business.

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 Post subject: Re: base coat for gold size...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:17 pm
Posts: 76
Location: Mendocino, California
Lee,
The carved mahogany sign in front of my shop has been untouched for 27 years.
I sprayed many coats of Nason automotive clear on it and then did the gilding and outlining.
The clear still has plenty of integrity. That dark Philippine mahogany is now very blond from all these south facing years.
The back side is still dark.

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 Post subject: Re: base coat for gold size...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:29 am
Posts: 1002
Location: Ottawa Canada
Both the clears are acrylic water based. You'd have to ask Kent what the chemicals are as the Star Coating was/is a chromatic product


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 Post subject: Re: base coat for gold size...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:17 pm
Posts: 76
Location: Mendocino, California
but Doug, why two different clears? Is there a reason for the order ?

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