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 Post subject: Novice glass chipping (build chipping/drawing table)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:13 pm
Posts: 7
Hello everybody,

I am from the Netherlands, and spend already a lot off hours on this forum.
My hobby is working with glass, and I begin with tiffany 30 y ago. After that I begin with fusing glass, and was always looking for new techniques on the internet.
Then i found the site of David Adrian Smith, (UK) and i was blowen away!
I was looking for weeks if there was a second-hand Spatzier Lathe on the internet, but to find that is very difficult.
Then I was thinking: you are going much to fast Freddy! You have to start at the beginning.
I found some pictures off work from Erik Winkler, and I like the gilded glass with some parts chipped! It is a beautiful effect.

I bought some chipping glass hide glue, at a store 100 km away. Also gelatine capsules, and one shot black paint, and gold leaf loose.

Meanwhile I get contact with Bruce Jacson (Australia) and he gived me a few good tips and internetadresses.

Finaly i could begin with testing with the glass chipping.


My first attempt to chip without using the lightbox.
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The chipping was not completely, but i already liked the result for the first time.

Then i read something about humidity off the air on the forum. When the humidity is high the glue don't get his strenght to pull off the glass.

I decided to make my chipping/drawing table.
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After that I begin with building the top-box and the lower-box to keep the heated (by the lamps) air inside.
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After that I drilled several holes in the lower-box, to let heated air in.(from the central heating on the wall)
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My story is not ready yet, but i cannot upload more photos. I hope it can after I upload this part.

No, it is not possible to upload more photos. Do i have to make "Novice glass chipping 2"?


Last edited by Alfred de Goeij on Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Novice glass chipping
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:16 am
Posts: 626
Hi Alfred,

add to your original post. Go to the top of the page you posted on, select 'new reply' add your text and more photos. Add more as necessary.

What type of lights did you use, they look like LED's? I'm not sure if they put out any heat. Florescent lights are generally used, and put off about 100°, which is all that's needed.

Nice job for the first time. Use the 'search' tab at the top of the forum, you'll find considerable info on lights, glue chipping and many techniques related to glass work.

Danny

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Baronian Mfg.
CNC Routing & Fabrication
http://www.baronian.com


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 Post subject: Re: Novice glass chipping
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:13 pm
Posts: 7
Danny Baronian wrote:
Hi Alfred,

add to your original post. Go to the top of the page you posted on, select 'new reply' add your text and more photos. Add more as necessary.

What type of lights did you use, they look like LED's? I'm not sure if they put out any heat. Florescent lights are generally used, and put off about 100°, which is all that's needed.

Nice job for the first time. Use the 'search' tab at the top of the forum, you'll find considerable info on lights, glue chipping and many techniques related to glass work.

Danny



Thanks Danny, i can go on now. The lamps are ordinary 36 W.

Fred


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 Post subject: Re: Novice glass chipping
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:29 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:13 pm
Posts: 7
After I drilled the 100mm holes in the lower-box, I made an slide to control the heated air from the central heating. During the test I see if it is useful or not. Sometimes here in Holland, whe hang a little porcelain pot filled with water against the CV, because the warmed air is very dry. For me it is a good thing now.
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Next to the glass in the table I drilled 15mm holes (12 pcs between the lamps) so the warm air can reach the top-box where the glass is laying to chip.
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I think the table is ready to begin some testing. I orded a temparature/hygrometer to see and capture what is going on in the top-box.
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I made the table on information here on the Hand Lettering Forum, and some tips from David Adrian Smith and I want to thank you all for that.
So finally i can begin to do some tests.

Fred


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 Post subject: Re: Novice glass chipping (build chipping/drawing table)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:10 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:13 pm
Posts: 7
To make some tests I used floatglass 3 mm and to mask the glass, sandblasting foil. The mask is not so important right now, its only for testing.

The chipping glue i bought a few weeks ago, says not how much grade it is. I understand it must be 165 gr., only the sticker says "chipping glue".
I know now by this forum that there are a lot of different hyde-glue's.
So i begin with some tests with the chipping glue i have now, but in the meanwhile while i must wait during the drying proces, I was searching in Holland and Europe to buy some things from the brand name Gilder's. This because I use the glass-chipping gide from Bruce Jacson in Australia.
I contacted him also, and I wanted to use the same Gilder's stuff, so when something go's wrong it is not by using other things.

I even call to the UK and US to get more information about the things I want. My account by PayPal was last used in 2004, and I have re-activated it for doing international paying.
Maybe there are other brand names for the things I nead, but for now iI keep it by Gilder's. I hope my order is coming soon. (the frightcost are almost the same as the costs for the materials!)


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 Post subject: Re: Novice glass chipping (build chipping/drawing table)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:00 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:13 pm
Posts: 7
The first tests i made is on 3mm float-glass, and i taped it with sandblast-foil. Its only to seperate the lines. I used silicon-carbid 180, to 'frost" the glass.
I blast it in my cabinet for getting grip for the glue.
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I was guessing about the temparature of the glue.
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Hoping my glue-pot arrives soon.
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On this glassheet I did several methods to put on the glue. After that I put it in my kiln, that I normale use for fusing glass.
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The temperature was 60 dgr C but it didn't work out. At that point I deside to make the chipping table.


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Last edited by Alfred de Goeij on Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Novice glass chipping (build chipping/drawing table)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:17 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:13 pm
Posts: 7
In one of my tests, I let the glass heat up in the box while i was making the glue above the candlelight. When the glue was ready (I think) I put it on the glass and leave it in the box. The next day not everything was come of.
I think it was because after I put on the glue, I had to take it out of the box, and let it coole down. When it was coole down, then I did the edges with a sharp knife and put it back inside the box.
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I put the sheet in a bag in the frezer and after 1 hour it almost fall off!
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For test I let 1 block clear on the glass, to see wat happens with the glue. The glue get's no grip on the glass.
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I also noted, that on the glass above I used a mix of 1 hyde glue/1 water.

Also make a test with 1 hyde glue/1 1/2 water, and then the profile is much smaller.
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Yesterday evening I made a new test: 1/1 and first let it cool down before i put it in the box again. I look for a small moment so it didn't cool down to much and make a picture. While I am making the last messages i am hearing the glass popping sometimes!
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On the right side is a peace of glass where two lines didn't chip at all. They where don by brush one time, and I brush them again and put them back in the box again, to see wat happening.

I hope that everybody understand my story, it was a lot of work (also voor google translate! haha)


Greatings,

Fred
The Netherlands.


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 Post subject: Re: Novice glass chipping (build chipping/drawing table)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:44 pm 
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Posts: 7
It is very motivating that so many people respond on my story...................... :cry: , but oke, I show the result of the last test.
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If there is anybody out there, how have advice or tips for me, please let me now. This is the first time i test with hide glue and I want to now if I am on the right track.

Greatings,

Fred
The Netherlands


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 Post subject: Re: Novice glass chipping (build chipping/drawing table)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:35 pm
Posts: 143
You are depositing too much dried glue by volume on your glass. You might want to add just a bit more water to thin the mixture down a bit. When your glue curls off in a single long piece as seen in the photos it is a sign that you are applying the glue too thick. As you can see, there is a consistent margin of unchipped glass along the perimeter of the areas, AND it is rolling off in one solid thick strip. When chipping glue is laid too thick, it has no room for the formation of initial fissures that should begin to appear in the drying glue layer. Fissures must form to allow the glue to form some fracture lines WITHIN the glue area. Fissures are what allow the glue to fracture into "powerhouse" areas of segmented glue that will chip and fly away in random flakes. These types of flying flakes are what create the deeper and more brightly reflective chips that show so brightly when silver or gilded. You should do some experimenting in laying down thinner layers of glue to understand how it affects various types of glue chips. You should create an adjustable glue spreading tool and use it to test scrap pieces of glass. This will give you a much better idea of the nature of animal glue and how you can better control it's results. Also too, the steps of drying the glue, including letting it stand for several days before introducing heat to chip it can result in different chipping effects. Try seeing how little glue you can apply, and still get a fully chipped area. In your photos above, the "A" resembles more on the chips that I am referring to. The later long rolling glue chips suggest to much glue. I think you want to be in between those to results.

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