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glue chippng To leave the mask or not

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

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Roderick Treece
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glue chippng To leave the mask or not

Post by Roderick Treece »

I am getting ready to do alot of chipping and I have all ready sandblasted my glass.I usaully leave the mask on while appling the glue but I know that some of you like to take the mask off.Well I tried that and It seems to leave a slight jagged edge in spots to the asphaltum.It's a big job so I don't want to touch up everything.any suggestion .

Thanks Roderick
Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson »

Roderick,
Sounds like you are mixing the two techniques. No need to use asphaltum at all if you leave the stencil on until you pour the glue.

If using the asphaltum method, you normally remove the stencil right away and use a squirt bottle filled with warm glue. The glue goes onto the frosted areas and "dams" up a bit at the edge of the asphaltum. Any glue that goes onto the asphaltum will not adhere and will not chip, but you don't want to "bridge" glue across any asphaltum lines.

Maybe I am missing something in your question?

Mike
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
Roderick Treece
Posts: 1086
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:04 pm
Location: San deigo Calif
Contact:

Post by Roderick Treece »

MIKE,
I AM COATING THE GLASS WITH ASPLATUM AND THEN APPLING MY MASK.THEN SANDBLASTING(WHICH I LIKE BECAUSE YOU CAN TELL WHEN IT IS FROSTED WHEN THE ASPALTUM IS GONE).AT THAT POINT I HAVE BEEN LEAVING THE MASK ON AND POURING THE GLUE.WAITING UNTIL IT IS READY TO TRIM ANY GLUE THAT HAS RUN OVER.
I WAS READING A POST BY LARRY WHITE WHERE HE SAID THAT LEAVING THE MASK ON WAS A SURE BET TO GET PLINGKS.SO I THOUGHT I WOULD TRY AND TAKE THE MASK OFF AND WHEN I DID IT SEEMED TO LEAVE THE ASPALTUM WITH A ROUGH EDGE.
YOU SAY THAT MAYBE I'M MIXING TWO DEFERENT TECNIQUES , IF THATS TRUE LET ME KNOW SO I CAN GO BACK AND REVEIW THE OPTIONS.I KNOW THAT THERE ARE A FEW TECNIQUES LISTED ON THE LETTERHEAD SITE.I THOUGHT I WAS USING RICK'S ASPALTUM METHEOD BUT I KNOW HE TALKED ABOUT TAKING THE MASK OFF.
WHEN I TAKE IT OFF IT'S JUST TO ROUGH.

RODERICK
Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson »

Roderick,
Please use Upper Case / Lower Case on your posts....just a courtesy to the rest of us.

Please go back up an re-read what I wrote in the last post. It explains the two versions in a nutshell each. You don't need asphaltum if you pour the glue while the stencil is still on. IF you use asphaltum to see where you have blasted, fine, but you don't need it. IF you use it and it looks ragged when you remove the stencil after you have already double cut the glue at the edge, it doesn't matter if the asphaltum is ragged. It didn't need to be there in the first place.

If you go to the glue-chip How-To page and read my SignCraft article, it explains the asphaltum method as well as I have seen it explained anywhere. It tells you when to use it, why to use it, and how to use it. Do a test piece exactly as I describe it in the article and it will make sense.

I am fairly sure Larry used the Asphaltum "RESIST" process on his LaBelle project. The asphaltum method is used when glue is squirted from a bottle and not poured on with a squeegee.

I still believe you are mixing the two techniques without knowing why you are throwing in the asphaltum step (other than to see which areas are frosted).

Hope this helps,
Mike Jackson
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
Roderick Treece
Posts: 1086
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:04 pm
Location: San deigo Calif
Contact:

Post by Roderick Treece »

Good morning Mike,
Sorry about the upper case.
After reveiwing all the articles I am in fact mixing teqniques.I know it is'nt nessary but when the aspaltum is blasted away I know it's frosted.
My question is for "Ricks" and your metheod when the mask is removed I get a very slight freying or roughness to the edge of the artwork.Maybe I'm being paranoid but I just want to be sure.I know that the sandblasted edge is clean ,I just worry that with the aspaltum edge looking a little rough that maybe the glue will follow up to the roughness and cause plinking.

Thanks Roderick
Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson »

Roderick,
IF you used asphaltum, covered it with stencil, and frosted the glass, then poured glue in the frosted areas and cut along the edge of the stencil at the right time, you will not have any more or any less plinking caused by anything to do with the asphaltum being there or not. The glue will not be in the asphaltum area at all unless yoy let it run under the stencil, and even if it did, you would have already cut along the stencil edge. Since the glass in the asphaltum area did not get frosted, the glue will not have anything to grip to and will not chip there.

I am quite confident plinking is caused by either too strong of glue, or bridging across areas. Often times, using the poured glue (cut and peel) method, you get a little thicker glue deposit along the cut line, especially if you use a thick stencil. That "can" cause plinking, but not always. Again, this process takes some PRACTICE and experimenting at your place, climate, elevation, and so forth. There are variables in glue, etching materials, depth of frosting, and so forth. There is not much that can take the place of you doing a bunch of your own examples and test pieces so you can get a handle on when you might expect plinking and how far you can push the process. If plinking is a big concern, then use the standard squirt bottle asphaltum resist method I mentioned earlier and outlined in my SC article. It will seldom, if ever, plink. (unless you bridge across an area)

Mike
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
Mike Jackson
Site Admin
Posts: 1705
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:02 pm
Location: Jackson Hole, WY
Contact:

Post by Mike Jackson »

Roderick,
You must have spoken with Danny Baronian today and I just talked to him on the phone. He said you were squirting the glue on the glass and not pouring it....however....most of my responses today and last night were directed at the steps you outlined below.
I AM COATING THE GLASS WITH ASPLATUM AND THEN APPLING MY MASK.THEN SANDBLASTING(WHICH I LIKE BECAUSE YOU CAN TELL WHEN IT IS FROSTED WHEN THE ASPALTUM IS GONE).AT THAT POINT I HAVE BEEN LEAVING THE MASK ON AND POURING THE GLUE.WAITING UNTIL IT IS READY TO TRIM ANY GLUE THAT HAS RUN OVER
.

Now I am equally confused as before. The whole concept of the asphaltum resist method is to let the asphaltum stop the natural flow of the water based glue as you squirt it out of the bottle. If you are leaving the stencil on the glass (over the asphaltum) and still squirting the glue, you are still mixing techniques. I don't think that is a problem in itself, but if the stencil is still on the glass after you squirt, you will need to cut around it (I would remove the stencil at that point if doing this method). Again, the asphaltum is doing nothing for you at this stage.

The asphaltum technique steps are:
1. Coat the glass with asphaltum
2. Apply Stencil, Cut, and the frost the glass.
3. Peel all stencil leaving only frosted areas and asphaltum areas.
4. Squirt glue in the frosted areas letting the asphaltum help keep glue only in the frosted areas
5. Let chip
6. Clean the asphaltum
7. Finish the rest of the sign

If you are having some asphaltum peel up when removing the stencil in step three:
1. Make sure the glass is very clean
2. Double coat the asphaltum before applying stencil (or get better asphaltum)
3. Try a less aggressive masking

4: If you still have some lifts on the asphaltum, just touch them up quickly with a brush and asphaltum....or don't worry about it and trim the overruns with an x-acto knife when the glue gets to the right stage.

Hope these suggestions help.
Mike
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
Roderick Treece
Posts: 1086
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:04 pm
Location: San deigo Calif
Contact:

Post by Roderick Treece »

Thanks again for all the info.I am not sure I like the new "QOUTE" feture as It lets Mike point out in very humbling detail when you say the wrong thing.I promise never ever to subsitute the word " POUR" for the word "sqeuzee" (I probable did'nt use that word because I don't know how to spell it).Any way I've finished my chipping and it was very sucessful.
I used aspaltum,masked,sandblasted,removed the mask , "SQUEZED" the glue on and trimed at the right moment.
Three notes that I think are important are,
1) Put it in the oven when it is just dry enough that it won't remelt.It makes for a wonderful chip.(Thanks larry )
2) Glue temp not over 125 to 130 any hotter and I don't get enough glue on.
3)As suggested(by Mike) I might try useing a lower tact mask.But even with the slight freying of the edges it didn't matter if you trim good.
Thanks again
Roderick
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