I need everyones help on this one - Please read and respond!

[Rob Schramm]

Well I want to do a custom backsplash for my moms house out of painted glass, however I am going to be doing layers of paint one on top of the other in a splatter effect and I think that I want to use 1shot with hardener added but I wanted to get your thoughts on this as it is the first time that I have done just splattering paint. My plan is using all historical colors found in Tiffany glass as she has a lot of it! Once the splattering is dry I want to back it in black and wondered if just painting it with 1shot black is enough. I am having serious issues with 1shot and shellac as one melts the other. Normally I use rustolium but I really want to get use to using 1 shot.

I know you guys know the best way to do this and any and all help would make my life easier as they leave for Canada in less then 2 weeks and me and my brother are making over the kitchen while they are gone for their 50th wedding anniversary (it isnt for 8 months) but lets face it they are 70 and I want them to enjoy it as long as they can.

Thanks
Rob

[Rob Schramm]

WOW, 19 of the smartest people that deal with glass have checked this out and not one response... You mean no one knows??? Therory is better then nothing!

[vance galliher]

Hi Rob,
Not sure why you're having an issue with shellac over the splatter paint with 1shot backup ? Are you saying that the 1shot is melting the shellac coat that you used as a barrier over the splatter paint ?

[Larry White]

Rob-
That sounds like the right way to do it to me. I often times sandblast glass then paint it, but that might not be required. I would just say to let each color dry thoroughly before applying the next one. I wouldn't see needing to use shellac.

-Larry

[Roderick Treece]

I'm with these guy's. I've used alot of 1 Shot and shellac and never had a problem.I don't see the need for shellac unless your looking for tinting layers between colors.You are going to need the hardner if your going to do thick paint.I would say drying time would be very important here.If you put ANY paint over paint that is not dry it WILL make that underpaint curl.That might make for some interesting texture over time. I have fine art paintings that I do that exact thing on to get the paint to react and curl up.It takes awhile before it does it and might not stop for years.
I might be better to give it a light blast but it will be fine without it.
Your other big concern as always with back painted glass and custom mirrors is how to attach it.I always favor a machanical attachment versus glue of any type! Trying keeping the painted surface away for the wall so it doesn't stick to it over time.

Roderick

www.customglasssigns.com

[Danny Baronian]

Same as Larry & Roderick, let the paint dry thoroughly.

No need for a barrier, but If you want one, mist with shellac. Among other materials, it has been recommended for years as a silver back up in mirroring. Your sure you're not using japans?

I'm surprised no one has questioned the 1 shot attacking the shellac as you mentioned. You must be doing something no one else has, 1 shot dissolving alcohol, or vice versa . The only thing that dissolves shellac is alcohol. Alcohol will act as a solvent on enamel, but it's going to a lot of time, work and alcohol to accomplish.

Danny

[Mike Jackson]

I'm with everyone else on this one. Sounds like you are rushing the job some and not letting the OneShot dry. If you wait the proper time, you shouldn't need shellac at all on this kind of project. I'd suggest a full 24 hours between coats of one shot and even then, a new top coat of something else might slightly soften some paint, depending on how it was applied.

[Roderick Treece]

As I mensioned before one use of shellac can be as a staining layer between paint layers.It work great if you like the mix of colors. Like golden yellow over blue make aqua green and so forth. The other great thing about shellac is that it is alcohol based so working in layers on top of each other works great.
You must be using something deferrent because I've never heard of anyone having that kind of reaction before.

In the photos of the Fresh Roasted glue chipped glass sign you can see the yellow green staining.The shellac being in front of the blue turns it green.

www.customglasssigns.com

[vance galliher]

........"I'm surprised no one has questioned the 1 shot attacking the shellac as you mentioned"......
Danny, re-read my post.

[Rob Schramm]

Thanks for all the responses and sorry about being a smart A-S in my last post but I thought maybe it might get some of you guys to answer - I hope you didnt take it wrong!

I am a big idiot as when I posted that I said it wrong, I wasnt having issues with shellac and 1shot it was 1shot and rustolium spray paint!!!

So here are some more direct questions that I hope you can help me with.

1. Do I need to thin the 1shot or add hardener for faster drying and better bonding to the glass?
2. If I want some of the spots and the droplets to be semi transparent do I just super thin the 1shot?
3. Roderick - I really love the look of the sign and that in parts is kinda what I want to do, can you share any of your secrets of doing that either here or in email? Also what paint did you use for the lady in the glass? Is that etched? Did you add metal flakes?

Thanks again and sorry if I came off wrong as when I read it I see that it could come off like I was mad but I wasnt.

[Doug Bernhardt]

Tried a post earlier with a few hiccups...lets try again! Part of the earlier post was to do with the shellac and 1shot issue....I see that was resolved .....SO the I'd be careful about placing these new glass pieces directly on some drywall/wall. Things are gonna move and would think about leaving a "Smidge" between them. Good Luck with your project.

[Danny Baronian]

Rob,

Read the contents on your spray can of RustOlium, or check RustOlium's site for MSDS sheets.

It's glaringly obvious why you're having problems with 1 shot. Or any other dissimilar paint used in conjunction with RustOlium. They are totally incompatible.

Danny

[Jim Moser]

I don't know why you would be using rustoleum on this project anyway. I believe it contains some sort of fish oil which will mess with anything you try to put over it. (fish eyes...No pun intended)
Use one shot for everything and you shouldn't have any problems.

[Ray Smith]

Just a few things I've experienced while using 1-Shot on glass:

I found a product called,"No Touch Glass Stripper"which is used primarily to remove silicone based products(Rain-X to be specific)from glass.The company(No Touch Products)has a website but it is pretty much available through most auto parts supply stores.
My guess is it is composed of Bon Ami soap in a semi-liquid form as it smells and acts a great deal like it.I follow up the use with a good non-ammoniated glass cleaner.
As for using a barrier coat between colors,I have not found it necessary to do so.If I wish to clear coat it afterward,I find that if you wait more than 48 hours and use a spray can clear(I found Painter's Choice brand to work the best)it will tend to wrinkle the 1-Shot.
You can use a variety of spray urethane clears(automotive type)such as PPG 2021 or 2042 and DuPont 3000 series with good results.The technique I find that works best is to do two light,"tack" coats waiting approximately 15 minutes between each one and then follow with a good double(wet)coat.This will minimize the chance of wrinkling.A couple of caveats:Use a reducer that is non-penetrating and do not use a flattening agent()to get a frosted effect)as they will tear up the 1-Shot very quickly.
A lot of the time I will use a common marine spar varnish as a top coat but it does yellow slightly and seems to take several days to dry properly.

[Rob Schramm]

I had no idea about that with rustolium as I have used for many many projects and only a couple of weeks ago having problems with it. I think that 1shot will fix my issues and I dont mind waiting out the additional time for better results.

Can someone tell me a guesstimate of how long I should allow 1shot to dry when I paint glass through spray mask prior to removing spray mask? If I am reading these post correctly it is 48 hours is that correct?

[Roderick Treece]

Rob,
I never leave my One shot mask on for more than 1 to 2 hrs. One shot with or without harder WILL PEEL OFF if left on to long. I roll or brush it on and then go over it with a brush to make sure it evens out. One down side is that you do have some cleaning and triming to do in the end but it's pretty quick.
If I use mirror backing paint it's ready after it go's flat and can be taken off cleanly anytime after that with no hurry.
The photo show the way I time my projects and how I know when to peel the mask. Anybody that ever did their own Black and white printing knows this trick.Make sure you start your test panel 1/2 an hour before your main piece.

I almost always use one shot on glass

Roderick
http://www.customglasssigns.com

Ps I think alot of these questions you have could be answered by doing vareus shearches on the forum.

[Rob Schramm]

Roderick,

Thanks a lot I get it. I have bought 3 books on reverse painting from back in the 20's to help me understand. When I say that I am new to doing this on glass I am not saying it to be silly I really want to learn as I love the look of everything from the late 1800's through the 50's and want to gain an understanding on how to bring that to todays market because most of my clients have a liking for that as well. I think tht is why I was so excited when i first found Letterheads as it stated on the opening page I didnt have to be a pro but have a willingness to keep the past in the present.

I like the idea of backing paint for black as i can get that right from Sarah and I really like Sarah and Mike as they are great people!

So if I have this right either use 1shot and time it out (I will reserch black and white printing as I am guessing each thing has to be pulled at a certian time) or I can use mirror backing paint and wait til it goes flat and then pull the mask right?

[Roderick Treece]

I use One Shot for regular masking/ painting right to glass. I use Mirror backing paint ONLY when it applies to backing up mirroring and while using a mask in congonsion with mirroring. That paint is very stinky and toxic so I only use it over mirroring. I have no idea how it works straight on the glass.


Roderick
www.customglasssigns.com