star spangled sign

[David Slade]

I am planning to gild a glass door with the pattern of the blue part of the US flag. The sign will be 3 big Japanese characters, not letters, lined up vertically. Nice fat lines.

I plan to water gild with blue colored pure silver then cut out the stars and guild plain silver over the cut outs. Afterwards back up and continue as usual.

Any better ideas, warnings, advice?

I'd appreciate it,
David Slade

[Kent Smith]

I am lost on blue colored pure silver? I am not following cutting out the stars either.

[David Slade]

Kent,
Sorry about the confusion.

BLUE SILVER: The blue silver leaf is silver leaf that has been heated so it turns blue. I bought it here in Japan. I am attaching a picture of it.

CUT OUT STARS: After water-gilding the glass with blue leaf, before backing up, I plan to use a razor and stencil to cut star shapes out of the blue leaf. Then rub the middle of the stars off of the glass with a stick. Next gild plain silver over the cut out star shapes. Finally, back up and continue as usual.

I reconed, since you can fill in holidays and missed spots with a second gild, I should be able to fill in deliberately cut out shapes in the same way...

But, for the application, Is my idea the best way? Should I back up the blue first then cut the stars? Should I apply the stars first then the blue(this seems impossible unless I use size).
Any ideas appreciated...

[Doug Bernhardt]

The blue silver looks quite interesting...and if I understand, I hear....... 1/ water gild the bright lines of blue and then 2/an oil gild of same. IF that's the case there is no need to cut out the star shapes. Just burnish, back-up and get paid ;=/

[Kent Smith]

I think I would use a more conventional method. Water gild the silver, back up the stars and clean up. This could also be backed up with screen printing for line quality. Then water gild the remaining blue leaf and backup the total area. Scratching out the stars would give you an iffy line quality at best. You could not surface gild silver as the oils and varnish will tarnish silver. One caution would be that the blue leaf may be more brittle due to the heat treatment. While I am aware of the colored leaf, I have not worked with it before. Most of the colored leaf I have received as samples has been composition, not silver. I wonder if the blue heat treatment would minimize future tarnish?

[Doug Bernhardt]

Kent and David, Have done the oil gild quite a number of times with silver or more usually white gold(which has a high silver content)and never had a tarnishing issue. Wether this has more to do with the size used (usually 1-shot) or circumstances I can't be sure. Those being the gold content of the white gold rather than pure silver. I guess we are getting into much bigger issues. Having said that silver with a standard gild without an acrylic top coat has given me problems but that was never on glass.

[David Slade]

I appreciate the help fellas!

Doug, could you explain a little more... Use surface size for the stars??? I wanted a better mirror like finish than size can give. I probly missed your point completely...

Kent, the blue silver IS very brittle. I double triple checked that it is real silver tho. I was hoping the brittleness would make for a cleaner cut line. But I think I am going to go with your suggestion an back up the white silver stars first tho.

I slotted this for Thursday morning so I'll let you all know then.

[Scott Rowan]

David, Have you tried a test of water gilding the blue silver? If it is the same thing I used
it turned black when water gilding. I did have some success with "Rolco Aquasize",go figure.
Good luck.

[Kelly Thorson]

Could you mask off the stars with frisket or other thin film, gild and back up and then remove the mask when the backup is tacky, reclean and gild your silver?
There may be a problem with edges if the film is thick, but you could counter that by cutting in your backup just shy of the mask.
Whatever you chose, try your method out before Thursday.

[Doug Bernhardt]

Sorry I misunderstood the intent. If I were looking to have a bright gild over all I would just water gild and back-up as usual. I might still misunderstand but see no reason to be cutting leaf.

[David Slade]

You got me scared now, Scott. I better try the blue silver today. I got it from a place called Sankichi.
Did you buy the Rolco over here?

[Kent Smith]

Now that I understand better, I think I would water gild the silver stars, 1.5 to 2 times the gelatin, backup the shapes, then surface gild the blue using one of the acrylics, either AquaSize from Rolco or Wunda Size. If you wait a few hours to tack, the gild will appear fairly brilliant and after 3 to 6 months it will be quite bright. This would be much more preferrable for a more even gild with the brittle blue silver. You will need to thoroughly seal this after it is done as the tarnishing will begin immediately. I would prefer a low sulfur clear like UV Topcoat then to protect against water and washing, a coat of the OneShot gold size as a final sealant overall.

Scott...good info on the blue. I'll have to get some from Larry and test. One more thing to do.

[Scott Rowan]

No I didn't. I took some of my "Blue Gold" with me to a letterhead meet in Banff where
Russel Kelly turned me on to it. It seemed to work but I didn't do a test piece to see how
it holds up over time.

[David Slade]

Well, I finally got around to doing this sign last week. I still plan to add a stipple silver outline to set it off against the dark background.
Thank you to all of the great fellas that gave me advice!!!
David Slade

[David Slade]

I'm goin ta call it finished... It is not up to the standards of the Letter Heads but I have learned a lot! I notice more people turning their heads to look at it since doing the stippled silver. It kind of glows

I don't have any software for resizing pictures so I had to take the lowest quality picture on my camera to get it to upload under 700X700 pixels... Sorry about that.

David Slade

[Kent Smith]

Now I understand the stars and the outline does help make it pop. Don't know what it says but it looks more legible.