Luthier hyde glue

[Scott Hendricks]

Has anyone tried this for chipping it has a strength of 256 grams. http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Glues,_adhe ... _Glue.html I figured if u mix this with more water it might give a more effective chip.

Scott

[Danny Baronian]

Scott,

have you read this over?:

STEP ONE (mixing the glue)
NOTE: Only one type of glue will work for this process. It is a low grade, dry, animal hide glue with an approximate 165 gram strength and designated as glass chipping glue. High strength hide cabinet glues or gilder rabbit skin glues are very elastic and will not work. Neither do white or yellow wood working glues.

165 gram stength is also know as 5x.

Hit the tab at the top of the main page titled The Letterhead Site, go to Rick Glawson, scroll down to Glue chipping on glass.

Give the 256 gram strength glue a try but you'll be out the money, have a mess, and no closer to the desired results.

Rick's notes contain all the information you need to produce chipped glass. It might take a few tries to get it right, and understand the process, but it works. The glue in question doesn't.

Danny

[Scott Hendricks]

Yes i have read extensively about it but i was not aware that the glue would not work thank you for the heads up. In my logic the stronger the strength the quicker or faster it would chip. But alas I am incorrect not the first nor the last .
Thanks for the info

Scott

[Mike Jackson]

http://www.theletterheads.com/lhparts/gluechip.html

Scott, here's the link to the page on TheLetterheads.com that contains a lot of information and links about Glue-Chipping glass. In your other post, you were asking about chipping small letters and fine detail. Check out the asphaltum method. It will do the job!

You are certainly encouraged to experiment, but when Rick wrote the other glues WON'T WORK, you can pretty well rest assured they won't. If you are hoping to give yourself the best chances of success early on, I'd suggest you not stray too far off the specific directions given on the page linked above. Once you get a handle on the process, experimentation with other products might yield great results.

Mike Jackson

[Doug Bernhardt]

Scott......unless I mis-read you have some of the "stronger" glue and are ready to try it out. I f you have done this before (chipped glass) it would be interesting to see the results. If it's a first time thing for you I'd stay away from trying it out on a "real job" and stick to the tried and tested. If it were me, I'd do a second or third piece with your new glue just to see what happens. I'd also measure and record everything so there no happy accidents you can't repeat. A number of years ago I visited Chicago and Robert Freeses home/shop. He had a number of examples from the Pause sign company that had an unusual effect. After a couple of experiments I found the same effect could be had by acid etching the already chipped letter. Was a total surprise to me and it just furthers the idea that wonderful things can be had by experiments. Like how'd anyone ever work out glue chip in the first place.

[Mike Jackson]

Pat Mackle might have more specifics on the glue strengths.

We bought a 100 lb bag of "5X" glue a long time ago and had enough of it I never had to experiment with other brands or strengths. After Rick passed away, Danny and I spent quite a bit of time trying to find sources for many of the items Rick sold. That's when I had to relearn the new numbering system.

Hard to Find Sign Supplies Source Page : http://www.theletterheads.com/supplies/index.htm

When I was talking to the salesman at Higgins, he tried to explain the ratings and comparisons to the old 5X ratings. I believe Danny said it is equivalent to 164 gram strength glue. 135 gram strength also works but is less powerful. I suppose you can mix the two equally for something in between.

When using our old 5X glue, we found to be a bit TOO strong or powerful and had to cut it slightly with a few drops of glycerin. When Rick sent some glue to the Boise meeting, we used his glue for the class projects and that glue was much weaker than our old glue. It chipped, but not quite the same way we had used to seeing it chip. No need for glycerin.

Back to the point...the old 5X glue would usually PLINK into the clear glass when we did the cut and peel method. Assuming that was abnormally "strong" glue, I'd also assume that moving up to the really powerful glue would increase the odds of unwanted plinked edges. Of course that was using the same processes. When we used our old 5X glue on the asphaltum method, we didn't need to add the glycerin.

When we did the cut, pour and peel method, we always ended up with a fairly thick edge of glue once the stencil was re-cut and removed. When pouring glue out of a bottle and up to the edge of the asphaltum resist, you get the opposite. The edges are actually a little thinner or domed.

Rick and other people doing a lot of glue chipping would have eventually found the “appropriate” glue rating to get reliable results. Bob Mitchell was doing glue chipping quite a while before Rick entered the scene and there were several books on the subject in those early years.

Some of the other “hide” glues were developed and sold through art supply stores. I believe one of their major uses was for the purpose of making a “gesso like” undercoating. You could buy it at Dick Blick, for example, but as Rick pointed out, it really wasn’t glue suitable for glue-chipping glass. It is also sold through woodworking stores for gluing wood. Again, it didn’t work when some people tried it.

http://www.theletterheads.com/supplies/index.htm

Good luck,
Mike Jackson

[Mike Jackson]

Oh yes, on that test we did with the glycerin, here's how we did it.

We bought half a dozen 1'x1' pieces of clear glass. We added a border and then several vertical stripes in each glass. (nothing fancy) They were all sandblasted as we normally did.

Then we labeled the first piece "No glycerin" and mixed up 1.5 oz of glue and 3 oz of water (by weight), heated it and poured it over the entire space. When gelled, we re-cut the glue edges and removed the stencil.

We mixed up another batch of glue and added 5 drops of glycerin and repeated the rest of the steps, labeling that one "5 drops glycerin".

We repeated the same process on the remaining pieces of glass, increasing the glycerin by 5 drops each time.

When everything chipped, we determined the 10 drops of glycerin was the correct one. The pieces with 25 drops didn't chip at all.

This doesn't mean YOU need to add glycerin, it is just the example of how we determined how much we needed on that 100 lb bag of 5X glue we had at the time and using the same set of steps and techniques.

M. Jackson