Clear for Gold on Vehicles...

[Doug Fielder]

First, I would like to say that it is great to see all the visitors reading the posts, but very few, if any people actually give any input. This site is for teaching as well as learning... so please, share your knowledge.

I know this question is asked all the time, but I haven't found any answers on here after doing a search.
While talking to Alan Johnson last week, he said he hasn't found any good clears to put over goldleaf for vehicle lettering etc, that they all break down. Is this everyone else's findings too?
A couple of guys I know that letter fire apparatus use PPG DC or DB yada yada to clear their stuff, but I am not a fan of the thin consistency. Any other ideas?
(I do have a gallon of 1950 something Man-O-War Spar Varnish, but I am saving that for a real historic piece etc....)

Thank you.

[Mike Jackson]

Doug, your mentor says:

Alan Johnson... said he hasn't found any good clears to put over goldleaf for vehicle lettering etc, that they all break down.

He is probably correct. I don't know of any brushing varnish I trust for overcoating gold either. A lot of fire trucks get 23k gold, complete with outlines and spinning, but after most of them are varnished and complete, they get babied daily and stored inside firehouses. That's not the typical scenario on a construction truck. Kent promoted the Chromatic Clear Overcoats at one time, and maybe he has some specifics on their durability in the real world. Personally, I wouldn't trust your Man-O-War varnish oustside either.

For this question, you probably need advice from people capable of spraying clear automotive finishes.

Good luck,
Mike

[Danny Baronian]

Doug,

have you done a thorough search on this forum regarding clears? It's been discussed before, and the answer is always the same: there is no good clear that will last a long time made specifically for the sign trade, period. That includes the latest acrylic latex one shot uv clear. In California it can fail in as little as six months. I think you'll find most on this forum don't do vehicle work, but regardless the answer's the same. The longest lasting are the automotive clears.

As far as saving the spar varnish for a historic piece, be prepared to refinish it within a year or two. If you doubt that ask anyone that owns a wood boat, or a marine supply that furnishes the product. I used that many years ago thinking it a long lasting product. It isn't.

[timi NC]

In the past decade I have had excellant results with automotive ureathane clears..It seems that alot of the fire company's near here were not cleaning their wash pails and constantly washing the trucks so the old spar varnishes were not holding up. Secondly there were problems with adhesion on the finishes used on the fire apparatus(imrom,..sikkens etc) with one shot used for outlines and shadows,...etc.

The solution Jim Norris, my mentor, taught me was to use a hotter thinner for any lettering enamel used so adhedsion was not a problem with the newer finishes and to use automotive clears over the gold leaf copy.

We letter with the size and gild as normal practices dictate, giving the size as much time as possible to tack, before gilding. You also need to gild completely with no pinholes,...thus the "patting Down" technique Alan Johnson uses,...this is to insure all the gold size is covered with gold and will act as a foil barrier to the clear. The excess is then brushed away with velvet and for most automotive applications we engine turn the gold with the spinnits Jim markets thru Sepp leaf and formerly Rick Glawson.

Once the proper burnish wanted is acheived, we clear the gilded area with an automotive clear. We have had good success with sikkens and dupont 7600 spot clear. Do not use anything but harener/activator and the clear,...no thinners or retarders are needed as they might possibly craze or wrinkle the size under the gold.You need to clear only the gilded areas as you would a finished glass job very neatly with a slight overlap of the gild,thus sealing in the gold on the surface. Any excess gold left on unsized areas of the automotive finish may be wiped off after the clear dries approx. thirty minutes in normal temps. with a prep solvent and or rapid prep., taking care no to use too much pressure on clear over the gilded areas.

The gild can then be outlined and shaded on top of the clear,using hardener to increase the durability. I have had no failures in over a decade using this method ,and once even had a fire truck get close enough to a fire to melt plastic lenses 6" away from gilded areas without harming the gild. Other uses have been on so called brush trucks that frequent off road areas and are apt to get rough treatment from brush and low tree limbs coming in contact with gilded areas, with damage only to areas that completely took off paint down to the primer.

One thing of note to Fire apparatus applications,...the dept members and or firemen have a tendancy to frequently wash these vehicles using a five gallon pail and wash mittens in this area. These need to be washed frequently to clean out any silt that might accumulate and act as an abrasive similar to rubbing compound on the vehicle finish and any gilded graphics. I have actually seen silt laden mittens wash off graphics due to abraision from the silt.