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Hi all, hopefully I am in the correct place to get a little help. I Googled "Hand Brilliant Cutting Machine" and this site came up tops.
I am in the UK and I am in the decorative glass trade. I would love to learn to brilliant cut glass and offer it to my customers. I get asked to quote on brilliant cut glass projects once or twice a month and I usually persuade the customer to accept a sandblasted design instead as I do not offer brilliant cutting. I will be getting some tuition soon and I really need to acquire the equipment asap so I can practice this amazing art form. I have been trawling the internet all day and I have phoned up quite a few 'brilliant cutting companies' in the UK but I seemed to have hit a brick wall. This equipment seems rarer than rocking horse waste! Does anyone here know where to buy the lathe (if that is the correct term) or the wheels in the UK? Alternatively if anyone knows of a recently retired 'cutter' in the UK that may have a complete setup covered in dust, longing to be dragged out of retirement, please point me in the right direction.
I think it will be a long shot to obtain a good full set of used equipment so even if you guys can point me in the direction of new equipment or even let me know the correct terminology to search for I would really appreciate it
Hi Francis...Dave Smith otta be able to help you with that as well as his workshop. I happen to know he's out of town right now but will see to it he gets this message. It IS an amazing artform isn't it!
Yes it is and I have wanted to lean how to briliant cut for years but actually thought that in todays times, it was all made by CNC. I was very surprised when I found modern photos of people holding a piece of glass above a spinning wheel. Funnily enough I discovered David Smith last week and spoke to him on Saturday and he kindly offered to help me learn the required skills at his workshop soon. I know he is a very busy person at the moment so I am trying to see if I can find any equipment/supplies before I start with Dave. I would hate the thought that some old boy is retiring soon and decides to throw his kit away so I am trying to make as many people as possible aware, that I am looking for the tools.
As mentioned earlier I get offered brilliant cut work every month and I have even been asked to quote for supplying it for a couple of TV shows and one movie in the past but had to also try and convince them to go with standard sandblasting instead so it would be brilliant (pardon the pun) to get the tools in my hand and see where it leads.
After looking at Daves amazing videos I would also love to learn acid etching and gold leaf work as well but one step at a time I suppose.
Pat Mackle has been known to dabble in brilliant cutting.
I believe he's done quite a bit of research on the wheels, etc.
He's built his own machines and has toyed with the idea of
building them for others that are interested. He's in the USA.
Might get a bit pricey shipping something like that to the UK,
but it just might be a source. You can look him up on this
Forum, or try his website Decorative Glass Processes
Thanks for that Larry, I am clicking the link as we speak. I have ordered a book called "The Techniques of Glass Engraving" so hoping to learn something from that as well
Welcome to the forum Frances.
I too have always admired brilliant glass cutting but don't have the space for a lathe like Dave has.
I believe machines like Dave's come along if you are very lucky and have often wondered if I could build one of my own but in a scaled down size for smaller pieces. Reading that Pat has built one has re awakened my interest in such a build.
Enjoy the forum, it's grand.
I know the briljant cutting wheels and frames are scarce.
Lucky enough I was able to buy one setup from an old English man who never used it anymore and it was collecting dust in his brothers garage. Made the trip by boat to England drove for 12 hours and took it home with me. After realizing that the old motor was done with, I reorginized the setup, wheels rods, took care of the watersupply and hanging racks. Took me many months and pounds to get it up and working. Unfortunatly at the moment i have family matters to deal with so i can not work with them.
The story is: a lot of work to get it set up, a lot of money to buy them and the extra needed stuff, mayor learning curve (approx 3 months non stop). Before you can sell it without red cheaks to a customer.
The Dreisner book is nice, but it definatly teaches allmost nothing about brilliant cutting. It mostly talkes about engraving with copper wheels.
Last edited by erik winkler on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hi Erik, thanks for your comments. It is a shame that the book doesn't sound too useful but hopefully I will learn something good that I don't know (fingers crossed)
Amazingly today I had a customer pop in to see me, he phoned and said he had broken a piece of glass in an old door. When he arrived, low and behold he had a brilliant cut piece of glass with him!! This is the first time anyone has physically brought a piece of brilliant cut glass to me (I usually get requests by email) what are the odds of that, just as I am planning to learn the technique!
Here is the piece, I told him that we cannot replace the glass as it is and he said that he knew he wouldn't be able to get it remade with the cuts in. He was happy with a sandblasted piece without the brilliant cutting. One thing he did ask is if I knew how to clean the etched areas up as they are all filthy and he has more panels in his house. I guess this is an acid etched panel and it must be old because the glass is actually 7mm thick. Does anyone know if it is it possible to clean up the old etched areas of the glass?
I have found that the many years of soot and industrial air pollution that these panels attract is best removed by using naptha or white gas. These solvents are a finer distillate than paint thinner and lift the grime away. Other soap based cleaners don't seem to work as well and usually just redeposit the grime in a new pattern. This type of brilliant cutting was usually cut and polished into the clear plate glass. Then the surface was hand frosted or "ground" with emery powder and water. If you look closely at the outside edges of the polished cuts with a magnifier, you will see some fine pitting where the larger grains of fine emery barely pitted the slight radiused edge of the polished cuts as the rolled between the grinding plate and the cut glass design.
Before you clean this glass, or any old acid embossed glass, first lay it etched side down on a piece of white paper and marvel at all of the dark brownish amber pollutant based patina it has stored up in the last 100 years or so. You may stop to think for a moment if it really should be removed. In some ways it just seems wrong, like polishing up an old Tiffany Lily pad lamp. The latter cleansing would certainly destroy the value of the lamp.
Hi Pat, yes I agree that he probably should just leave them. I have just had a look through my jewelers loupe and there is a slight rough finish around the etched lines so it probably is hand obscured.
The panel he left with me is from a set of 4 as one of them broke. I may ask if I can have the broken piece to play with to see if it is cleanable.
Pat, apparently you have made your own machine for brill cutting. Can you let me have some pictures etc and prices with shipping to the UK if this is something that you can offer
pat mackle wrote: Then the surface was hand frosted or "ground" with emery powder and water.
Is that using a piece of flat scrap glass as a sort of "pestle" please Pat
Francis Leadbitter wrote:
Pat, apparently you have made your own machine for brill cutting. Can you let me have some pictures etc and prices with shipping to the UK if this is something that you can offer
I would like to see these pictures too please Pat, if that is possible?
Hi Anthony,
Yes, you have the correct idea. The glass is generally ground by hand using a block of glass or brass metal and fine abrasive grains. In early days emery powder (also known as corundum powder or aluminum oxide) is mentioned in most books as the choice for adding the ground frosted finish to the glass. But nowadays fine silicon carbide can also be used. Silicon carbide being harder and sharper than aluminum oxide, it is also more expensive. I have used both in the past, whichever was most handy at the time.
The grinding block can be of several designs. I personally use regular plate glass because I have plenty around the shop and can easily cut it to size. But whether you choose glass or brass, I would suggest that you cut a series of cross hatched grooves into the grinding face. These grooves can be cut in using a stone wheel on a glass lathe, or sandblasted in. Adding these cut grooves prevents the block from sucking down to the glass and aids in recirculating the grains and water while you grind. You will find that you can grind far more efficiently and for longer stretches with these grooves cut into the block. If the block is allowed to suck down to the glass it will prevent the grains from rolling lightly and freely, resulting in unsightly scratches from fixed (non rolling) grain particles.
Hi Francis,
If you search for photos of glass lathes on line, you will see many sizes and variations. Their design and size is directly based on the size and type of glass you plan to work on, whether it be flat glass or glassware. Really finely detailed glass cutting (sometimes termed as "copper wheel engraving") is done with small copper wheels charged with oil or more recently, carborundum or diamond wheels. Most large work Like Dave Smith executes are done with large aluminum oxide and silicon carbide wheels (sometime referred to as "flywheels").
I do mostly flat glass cutting, so my lathes are designed to cut larger pieces. Mostly, that means that the cutting surface of the wheel must be the highest point of the machine, so as not to be hindered in maneuvering the plate glass by striking the bearings or pulleys that turn the stone wheels.
Somewhere on this site there are a couple of photos of me that showed up. Both with the same glass lathe. Oddly the glass lathe in these photos looks like new, but I don't seem to have fared quite as well . Maybe I too should have been oiled more frequently!
. Maybe I too should have been oiled more frequently!
Denver Chapter of the Letterheads