Certification

[Site Man]

OLD FORUM POSTS

Posted by John Grenier on February 17, 2004

Well this is sure to start another long string like the copyright stuff and this may tie in, so here goes.
In times past there was a large training and qualification process in various forms around the country to be a "Master Signwriter". I think that it should be considered again. When I was being educated in Detroit during the 1960's I attended Cass Technical High School and my diploma reads Commercial Art Department. I could have then gone to work for Naegal Outdoor or ad agencies (as well as several others) as an apprentice to a Master or Journeyman through the Union Progams. I chose the "Fine Art" path and went on to University and never persued the apprenticeship programs.
With technology and franchised shops the demand for talented signwriters can't support that old system.
Okay, I guess what I am getting at is that an organised group of professionals could fill this void and help to maintain a professional level to our trade.
I know that when the Letterheads began the core philosophy was to share ideas freely with one another and be friendly competetors. The idea of documentation, acreditation or licensing was out of the question. Even awards were shunned. I remember (loosely) Hollis Baker saying "Boy, if you want an award you should be good enough to make one your own self." So many signwriters have accomplished what we have by learning what we can when we can, often trial and error and just plain not giving up and staying awake all night finishing the job the best we could.
I'm wondering what others think about setting standards to be met and being recognised for meeting those high standards.
Of course this brings me back to what someone else once said, "When your work speaks for itself, you should shut-up."
I think that ethics and honesty would be a part of that regonition. We, as signwriters, blatantly steal ideas and techniques from one another, that practice is called creativity. But, we do not steal one anothers work and call it our own. We don't steal one anothers brushes because our families raised good kids. See I told you this would tie in.

So I will let others add to this.

I humbly remain your shivering signwriter,
John Grenier

Mike Jackson

Hi John,
You asked an interesting question. My initial reaction would be to suggest that times have changed too much for that to ever happen again.

The sign industry was a bit more clear cut back then. There were trucks, walls, billboards, windows, water towers, and so forth that were almost all hand painted. To be a journeyman, you had to pretty much have full skills in all the facets. Additionally, there were tons of skilled teachers and schools that taught people exactly what they needed. Now, however, the sign industry cannot be so clearly defined or categorized. The teachers and schools just aren't there. About the closest thing now are the scattered Vo-Tech schools that people pay to attend and eventually get a "diploma". Not exactly a journeyman card equivilent! Someone could technically be a GREAT signmaker but never pick up a brush or even a pencil. Computers have changed the world so much!

Maybe someone could write up a set of specs that an interested person would try to complete, and if successful, they might receive some sort of "master sign writer" card...I don't know. You'd have to have the criteria, judges or reviewers, and some sort of way of gathering all the parts for review.

Others will have other opinions. I joined a union for a month or two back when I was still in college. Hated it! I could never see going though a union training process nowdays.

Mike Jackson

Noel

Hi Mike
I was a union member myself in Chicago. After two and half of learning letter stucture, how to letter, spacing, design and composition at The Institue of Lettering and Design. I was hired as a third year union apprentice. It was one of the best jobs I ever had.

Apprentice night school was held once a week. Don't remember if the word computer was ever mentioned. Ken Millar was our instructer. Bob Bohounek was a fellow apprentice (he was even really good then).

I think a credible certificate like Mike Jackson Doctor of Letters would look good in your reception area. You may not have saved a life but I bet you've saved a business or two.
Bye Noel

Mike Jackson

Hi Noel B. Weber, card carrying journeyman!

Do you think the same process would work today? Are there still Sign Painter Unions in Chicago? Still union schools? It seems to have worked for you and Bob Behounek. Do you ever wonder about the other bulk of people going through the same schooling and training?

I tend to think there are a select few the rise above the rest, regardless of the situation. From my limited stint with the union at a silk screening "point of purchase" plant in OKC, seniority was more important than ambition and talent. A deadbeat employee that was hired the day before me had the first dibbs on any upcoming advancement. I was only workig it as a summer job, working in the packaging department and not in the creative half of the business. That experience actually changed my mind set from working from someone else to working for myself. I could letter a truck in one day for more than I would make all week at the factory.

Intersting post!

Sarah King

I hope that the Letterheads think twice before setting up a certification program. I've seen good groups suffocate and wither when they go down this road. If you count yourself "in" or "certified" you are, by definition, pushing other people out. Exclusion is not good for creativity, growth or morale. We aren't talking wages and hours - we are looking for the free flow of artisitic techniques and ideas.

Mike Jackson

Sarah,
Like most people, I have some varied interests. A few people have seen me do Yo-Yo tricks at Letterheads meetings. I won a few tournaments when I was young and have always had at least some interest in them.

The Yo-Yo world has several series of manditory tricks that a person must successfully perform to be rated by a certain organization as Novice, Intermediate, or Master. Each category has increasingly difficult tricks, but the tricks are quite well defined. Within a sanctioned event, the Yoers demonstrate they can do the tricks and are ranked according to the completed tricks.

I suspect a group could do a similar concept. They'd just have to define what it takes to pass from one level to another. Since signs are a bit more subjective than whether a yo-yo flips and returns to the throwing hand, there might be some other issues. A master gold leafer might have to do a single tone gild, two or three kinds of two tone gilds, split blended shades, embossed centers, and so forth in a variety of leaf types and processes. That's just an example.

I don't want any part of it personally, but it could probably be done. It would not be a matter of exclusion, but more a statement or acknowledgement of achievement.

Mike

Robare M. Novou

Are we talking about certification of ones ability to do a given task, such as letter the alphabet with a lettering brush and some paint?

Or are we talking about ceritfication of ones "artistic ability" in applying brush
lettering? (or vinyl)

These are two seperate thoughts centered around the main idea of "How to stop the spread of Ugly Signs"

Dont sign schools award diplomas to those they have taught the basics of lettering and some advanced techniques to? Isn't that certification?

In some parts of Florida, you need to spend money and take a written test, and pass, before you receive your permit to make signs. They do this in an attempt to limit the number of ugly signs made that are more numerous than blades of grass on your front lawn. When I first got to florida, I called it "Red Helvetica on White .".

I never took the test, or paid the $200 fee. I just made nice signs, the letterhead way. And I was never bothered by city officials, for they knew I had the communities best visual intrest in mind. Did this certification program work, you ask? Depends, it made more money for the city, but without enforcement...you got zip. All bark and no bite.

Here in Milwaukee, I work closely with several local communities that hold monthly sign design approval meetings. They are too are sick of the quicky sticky no design SH*T that they have been getting stuck with by these francise sign shops and low life drunken sign makers that are asthetically bankrupt, and only interested in the money. Thanks to the lack of apprentiship training programs, sign schools and certification... Communites are now having to police what goes up on thier streets. Thank you God!

You see it on the news...an industry decides to police itself before the government steps in to do it for them and screw things up...why you ask...cause the government doesnt know squat themselves. And if left up to a governmental group that knows not the inner workings of said industry...you end up with bad regulations. Or bad rules for making signs.
Thats why I never took the test, stupid questions
that had no bearing on doing away with ugly signs.

Do we need ceritfication of some sort? You bet we do. If they can license, architects, contractors, bricklayers, plumbers, electricians, etc. and then leave that beautiful building they all just put up to be desecrated by ugly signage.
Then somethings wrong.

I remember watching the black hat chef on pbs television years ago. Heres a chef that had to apprentice under no less than 21 other black hat chefs before he aquired his black chef hat. Hows that for certification?

Communities also need tougher rules...and enforcement of those rules. I for one am working with my local community officials, assisting and educating them, so that some day ugly signs will be a thing of the past.

RMN

Sarah King

I'm sure it could be done but it would require that a group be properly chosen and formally organized to issue the certificates. That group would need financial support and that would lead to dues being paid to fund the organization etc. I like the idea that a person's work speaks for itself - sounds like you do too.

Mike Jackson

Sarah,
Whether I like the concept or not, I absolutely know for a fact I have better and more fruitful things to do with my time. Getting involved with anything like that would fall somewhere way, way down on the list. I suspect the bulk of my closer sign making friends feel the same. I have enough of a chore just trying to get them to come to the Forum to make an occasional post!

Mike