Posted by Robert on February 14, 2004
RoderickI am playing with the different medias I know of for creating an embossing effect on glass and have the following questions:
There are 2 formulaes that I have been given:
1. Gum Arabic mixed in Damar
2. Quick Rub,Damar, and res-n-gel
What other ways do you produce this effect?
and then the following items, I am curious about
Gum Arabic- Can you take a water based gum arabic and dry off the water to dissolve it in turp or damar?
Is there a gum arabic solution out there that is oil base for mixing with damar to emboss with?
I bought a material called "liquin"...Could this be used?...or has anyone tried it for this method?...and if not...what is it's purpose?...other than what is on the bottle...as a medium for improving flow and transparency.
Thanks
Robert
Robert,
Embossing is a great tecnique.It's nice to have some thick damar on hand.Unfortunatly the last batch I bought was very thin so i let it "stand" awhile to thicken up.The thicker the more dramatic the embossing but if you do it too thick it takes for ever to dry.I always add japan drier and fiber seal to help it dry.When the tack is right you can surface leaf it or water guild.The longer you wait to water guild the less matt finish you get to the point where it dosen't have much contrast with the bright lines.
Liquin is a wonderful medium.I use it to blend color and do faux finishing and glazes.It dries fast over night when combined with oils or 1 shot.
Hope that helps.
Roderick
Mike Jackson
Roderick,
You mention you "surface gild" over embossed areas. I have to wonder how you do that?
Normally, damar varnish skins over and surface dries long before the thicker underparts. In my few experiences and tests, the damar doesn't give much of a tack window at all, and if it was applied at that point, the process of pressing gold onto it breaks the surface film, squishing the soft damar out. From what I remember reading, those are two of the reasons LeBlanc suggested water gilding over it. Additionally, if you try to brush oil based size over it, the size will dissolve the damar enough to cause major problems.
Maybe you can expand on your process for me/us.
Mike Jackson
Mike Jackson
RobertOr...you can just use straight Damar. Forget all the other junk, unless you are just on an experimentation quest. Kent Smith used to sell it. Esoteric sells/sold it. Letterhead Sign Supply probably sells it.
The NUMBER ONE thing to remember is you MUST water gild over it. You cannot surface gild it. Application of any gold size will dissolve it and ruin your pattern. You may need to add a drop of liquid soap into your water size to keep it from crawling over the dry damar.
Good luck,
Mike Jackson
Mike
D. BernhardtThanks...
do you normally thicken the damar up before applying to get more 3-d effect?....
I was just playing with trying to create more of a lift off the surface than normal....
and...lastly...I have to assume that the gum arabic is a water based material only...I was thinking it might break down in oild but have tested it and it doesn't...has anyone else tried?
and yes...water gild was a given!
Thanks
Robert
Doug Again - P.S....i'd stick to the, a third a third a third for this, although with one improvement...bulletin spar in place of quick rubbing.
The gum arabic would worry me in terms of permanence. It is used as the "medium" for watercolours and as I have learned of late a vehicle for acid etching (thanx Haydn). It hold the mica flakes in place and renders no distinct effect on the etch. Liquin I use often and is a great medium for getting oil colours to dry faster (but as a guess only), might not bring satisfactory results here...and besides the improved version satisfies these needs.
Robert......forgot to mention, you might want to add a drop or 2 of photoflow into the water size you make for this mixture. Can be bought at any reasonable photo shop as water tension reducer
Doug againThanks Doug, Frederick
I will try the damar thicker!
and Doug, using your photoflow, is that your sub for the soap?....I assume as a surfactant...yes?
Thanks
Robert
Yuppers...replaces soap and the advice below is well taken.
Mike Jackson - Depth
Robert,
It seems you are suggesting that a thicker layer of damar will produce a better appearance. I would suggest the opposite. It takes a very fine amount of difference in thickness to create a nice texture. Using mica and acid as examples, you probably have texture differences of only thousandths of an inch, but it looks good when gilded. The thicker you apply damar, the more time it takes to dry, the deeper the crevices and the more likely a squeegee or cleaning instrument will scrape off the high spots.
This is again a case of you needing to do your experiments and figure out some of this first hand. Many "issues" become apparent in the process and most lessons will stay with you forever. I'm sure there are numerous products which will give you similar results. I'd stay with the ones "in the book" if you know they have a fairly proven track record.
Mike Jackson
Robert
Thanks Guys!
I am looking forward to playing with this!
Robert
Denver Chapter of the Letterheads