Posted by Jeffrey P. Lang on May 02, 2003
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Danny BaronianHere is a photo of a job I am working on. The scrolls on the mitre look a bit flat, because they are, compared to the rest of the sign. I wanted to "shade" them a bit to make them appear dimensional. I was thinking of using asphaltum & wondered what other thought or have used with success. Will asphaltum stay adhered to the gold over time. Any suggestions are welcomed.
Thanks,
Jeffry P. Lang - asphaltumJeffery,
Nice work! How about a picture of the completed piece?
Danny
Robert Beverly(Sorry. Could not post image. Broken link?)
Danny,
This is just about there, gonna try & finish up soon.
Jeff
Jeffrey P. LangJeff
(Sorry. Could ot post image. Link broken?)
The above piece was recently completed with different shades of shellac that I had received from Esoteric Supply and are now available on many different sites that Mike posted in the suppliers guide.
I was very pleased with the outcome although brushing it on was less attractive to me than airbrushing it.
I hope this gives ya one avenue of approach!
Jay AllenRobert,
I should have mentioned that the sign will be used outdoors, northern PA, permanently.
Will shellac hold up outside?
I have used varnish over gold & it had failed after a few years. I wanted to shade the scrolls to make them appear raised, or dimensional & thought asphaltum could be a solution.
Thanks,
Jeff
Tony SegaleJeffrey P.,
Rick Glawson said Frog Juice would always hold up over gold outdoors. Plus it's optically clear. The asphaltum will look great and work fine with "The Juice". I'm almost sure that asphaltum is what Gregg Heger uses on his fire trucks. I'd guess he doesn't use Frog Juice though. But we've had great results using Frog Juice on all our exterior applications. Even over gold.
jay
Mike JacksonI have a panel ready to produce a "Gregg Heger" style sample piece this weekend at the Brush Rush 11. You're right, Jay, Gregg does use asphaltum. I have not been as successful with Frog Juice, though. It has cracked off of two gilded vehicle jobs and is coming off a reverse glass gild downtown. I never had a problem with Chromatic Clear Overcoat Varnish. I made a point to produce a sample piece to hang on the outside of my metal garage like Rick's piece, with the different metals and varnishes, this June.
I know were trying to figure out the best for the dimension with asphaltum, but how about Commonwealth varnish called Fibroseal? Is that for interior use only? It worked well on a reverse glass piece. If there was no dimension and the gold was installed high enough, I wouldn't varnish any of it, but that's not the case here.
Perhaps Mike or Doug can jump in on this one. Or you can email Ron Berlier, I know he took Gregg Heger's workshop in Boise 2000.
I can send more info after my piece over the weekend. Hope this can help.
Tony
Jeff,
We were asked to "tone down" the 23k gilded eagle we did for one of the local lawyers. I told them it would take on a natureal patina after a few weeks in the weather, but they still wanted it toned down. I used a glaze of burnt umber colorant mixed in with some turps. I covered the entire eagle, then wiped off the top surfaces with soft and dry cloth, leaving some of the glaze in the crevices. The glaze seemed to "soak into" the gold. I can't tell you if the umber has actually burnt out of the eagle over the years, but it has been up over 10 years.
Hope that helps,
Mike Jackson
Kent Smith
Lee LittlewoodAsphaltum by itself will not last. Mixed a a suitable varnish, it lasts quite well. I too have had good results with the Chromatic Overcoat clear since we designed that to be UV resistant with a life expectancy of 7 to 10 years depending upon other ambient conditions. All of the Commonwealth varnishes are technically suitable for outdoor use but remember all clears are subject to early UV breakdown. Bulletin spar is another good choice as it is brushable and the color of the asphaltum will help protect it. Durability expectations however for resin varnishes is about 3 to 5 years. The UV Acrylic clears such as Frog Juice or One Shot will work as well but they certainly are less brushable in a for sufficient for durability. Shellac tends to be somewhat self solvent and is not suited for outdoor use except on raw wood.
Kent SmithI had a different result with the Senenfelder (etcher's) Asphaltum, bought it at an artist supply store.. I used it in varnish to tint the matte centers of a two-tone glass gold window. Looked great, with a soft edge and a little transparency so the matte gold glowed through it. But in about 5 years it had clearly faded, and now at 15 years it is pretty much gone. Now it just looks like a regular two-tone job, so no harm done. The window faces west, but this is portland oregon, we don't get all that much sun! Since asphaltum is a natural material maybe some tar pits produce different goop than others, but I thought it was a pigment and light-stable.
For silkscreen printing we have used "Roof Patch" from local hardware store - it repels glue and resists hydroflouric acid like Rick's asphaltum, but it prints substantially better. I've never tried breaking it into a clear to see if it would work for shading (but I think it would.)
I had the same durability issues with Senefelder's and that is why I created my own recipe which I gave to Rick many years ago. With the gold to capture light on the west facing glass I can see that it probably had little chance for durability. Some of the old type earth pigment oil colors can actually be more durable for that type of shading. The amount of transparency as always will effect durability. I have had difficulty with tars staying in suspension in most synthetic resins and tend to be lumpy or streaked. The reason for using asphaltum was that it could be used over any color and kept its transparency well. It also holds its intensity consistantly when layering.
Jeffrey P. Lang
Roderick TreeceKent, Thanks for the info. This is just about there, I'm on the fence about the shading, as you stated, the asphaltum will not last by itself. I'd rather leave the scrolls alone than have something give down the road. Plus, if I clear over the gold on that part, it will look a bit different than the rest of the gilding. I don't like to clear over gold unless I have to.
Thanks,
Jeff
Roderick TreeceI say go for it ! the sign already looks like it has dimension so as my dad would say" Be Demonstrative".You Just need a good blendable clear toning medium .Some of the clears mentioned I've never heard of but I will try.I've used marine varnish with smithes cream or linseed oil or liquin, plus pictorial oils.I love fiber seal but you can't blend with it, .Unless your really sold on asphaltum as the color You can make the toning any color you want.You can also do more than 1 layer .Look at all those beutifull old master paintings
BEST BET. You can also use a dark red ,Black, ochre basecolor and rub the gold back to reveal the backgroud color or colors.Very fine steel wool than you could still tone the gold if you want to.The best thing is not too put anything on top.That way you don't have too take a chance on the clear poping off.
I used to do the refurbishing on the Cut-out raised letter goldleaf signs for Marie Callenders.And the clear was coming off alot taking the gold with.I guess who ever has had the best luck is who I'm going with.
I think it's funny noboody has mentioned that the letters could use somthing.To me a letter just doesn't look finished without a outline and highlight.
Roderick
Sorry I just saw the the outline.I really like the carving.
Kuldeep Patyal
Beautiful
Roderick Treece
D. BernhardtRobert,
Beautifull carving job.What is it made out of?Is it exterior? It would be beautifull to rub the gold back to reveal the undercolors on your peice. If you look at any old rococo frames and they all have this beautifull patina that cmes from years of cleaning and handling .I don't know if the Metroplolitan mueseum in N.Y. has a web site But if it does see if the have any frames annd guilded objects.
Again a very beautifull job.
Boy....go missing for a couple of days and look what I,ve missed!!!
I too have had mixed results glazing gold outdoors with varnishes mixed with asphaltum. The asphaltum hasn,t been the problem though. It will make the surface jumpy as in the plain gold will be brighter but that also can be used for effect. I haven,t been able to open the photo mentioned Jeff but saw a beautiful scroll below. Shellacs mixed with dyes work wonderfully but need to keep indoors. Have seen so many incredible things and great ideas here this evening I,m just a wee bit muddled. Am pretty sure any asphaltum bought from an art shop will be quite different. Reynolds (the artist)used asphaltums english equivilent Bitumen, and his paintings deteriorated badly, even during his life time. He used it for that beautiful amber tone which looks so good and the art community learned it,s lesson. Another idea or two might be to used some of the transparent screen inks with an appropriate medium. they also have beautiful qualities. Have quite a few at the shop and love the effects. Now I,m going to rely on my memory here but last time i did this proceedure I think i used frog juice as the glazing medium. If any different i,ll post back here tomorrow after i do a reconoiter over the paint box! Till later Doug
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