Paint mask choices

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Steven Vigeant
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Paint mask choices

Post by Steven Vigeant » Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:23 am

I hope paint masking is respected around here because I use a lot of it to create less vinyl work. Does anyone have a handle on which types work for which work? I've been using Avery white which is a little too tacky for windows but seems fine on panels. I have ruined some white aluminum panels when I left it on over the weekend. It was going to take for ever to remove and the glue peeled all over. Nightmare. The yellow Avery claims to be better but its really about the same as using intermediate vinyl and its pricey. Once I had alot on a window and it took me many extra hours to get it off. Nightmare. I've missed the answer in the magazines. Any thoughts? Thanks, Steve

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Post by Danny Baronian » Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:55 am

Gerber mask 1 for smooth, not porous surfaces, Gerber mask 2 for porous surfaces such as wood, HDU, and semi rough surfaces such as those painted with acrylic latex and a roller.

The 1 is a low tack, 2 high. On either one, remove as soon as possible.Try dusting with kaolin powder prior to adhering the mask, it will stick fairly well but will come off easier when the mask is left on for extended periods.
Danny Baronian
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Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson » Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:49 am

Steve,
When a panel is large, we often cover the panel with 24" rolls of Transferite and then hand cut it using a full sized pounce pattern as a guide. Transferite works great for that, but you wouldn't want to leave it on a panel more than a day or two.

About the only computer cut stencil we have here is GerberMask. I can't remember, but I think it is the "1" version for glass and smooth surfaces. We've left it on for days and even weeks, but I think it is safer to remove it sooner over a painted surface.

Good luck,
Mike Jackson
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Jay Allen
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Post by Jay Allen » Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:43 pm

We have had incredible luck with Macmask from Mactac. I don't like any of the other Mactac products - but this mask kicks butt. Gerber stinks compared to it - no kidding.

I won't go so far as to say it works best on every application because I haven't tried it on everything - but we've V-carved wood, PVC, HDU (Primed and top-coated) and compared Gerber to Macmask on each surface and Macmask cuts much cleaner. We buy it in 24" rolls - unpunched - and I couldn't recommend it more. Lower tack - cleaner lines - no tear up or chemical wrinkling. We still use Gerber for high-tack needs - but Macmask is more universally useable.

Here is an internet PDF available with info: http://www.comex.nl/downloads/supplies/ ... 28_180.pdf

I would strongly suggest each of you at least give it a try. Steve, it is much less tacky and lays down and peels up better than anything we've ever used before. It seldom tears and it is a translucent greenish-gray color - which is one of its greatest advantages - seeing through to your work.

Try it and post here again. I'm sure you can get some free samples from the company - or a vendor. Thumbs up!!!!

Jay Allen

Jill Marie Welsh
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Post by Jill Marie Welsh » Sun Jun 20, 2004 1:34 pm

I'm sorry Jay, but I would not recommend MacMask to my worst enemy.
I just cut a stencil job on it for a friend. Granted, he used House of Kolor paint and not 1-Shot, but the MacMask adhesive caused a bad reaction with the solvents in the HOK. It actually etched the basecoat/clearcoat finish on the car he was painting.
When I was put in contact with the Mac rep, thru N. Glantz, he was quite vague and unhelpful about the situation. He had actually never heard of House of Color paint. He thanked me for my "feedback" but that was about it. I told him that it needed to be labeled that it was not for use with automotive paints.
On a lighter note, it was easy to cut/weed, and I liked the fact that it was semi-transparent. But I will stick with CalMask from Calon II or try Gerber Mask in the future, or simply hand-cut TransferRite.
Love...Jill

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Post by Danny Baronian » Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:46 pm

Jill,

was the paint fully cured before the mask was applied, and how long was the mask on prior to removal? Was it indoors or out? Apply it and let it sit outside will bake any mask / vinyl onto fresh paint.

I've only used HOK on a limited basis, and believe most of their paint is a one part system. Forced dried two part urethanes can be worked on in some cases within 30 minutes, enamels and lacquers I leave alone for days.

The same reaction you describe has occured when masks were applied from 2-4 days after paint application. With enamel I try and allow at least a week before mask application and remove it as soon as possible or it will cause damage.

If the paint is not allowed to fully cure the mask would trap the solvents and cause an adverse reaction to anything applied over the paint, something you probably already know, but in trying to get the job out quickly we all push it.

If you are concerned about removal, try lightly dusting the surface with kaolin powder, it will not affect the paint and will help release the mask.
Danny Baronian
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Jill Marie Welsh
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Post by Jill Marie Welsh » Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:46 pm

Hi Danny.
This paintjob had been completed for at least a month before applying the mask. The masking/spraying of HOK was done indoors, and the mask was removed immediately following the paint job. (It actually lifted and crinkled during the paint process) Everywhere the masking touched the vehicle, it left a "ghosting", probably due to the adhesive.
I myself am a hand-painter, not an airbrusher, etc. I just feel bad that this happened to a friend. He was going to try to save it with the application of a clear coat.
Thanks for your input, which is much more than I got from any tecchies!
Love...jill

Danny Baronian
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Post by Danny Baronian » Sun Jun 20, 2004 4:23 pm

Well, after a month it should be dry.

You might try tech support again. Call MacTac and HOK. Not familiar with nor used the mask, but the rest of the line has been around for decades, and have had good success with it.

If nothing else, it would be nice to find out exactly what took place, and what product failed. While you assume it was the mask, it could have been the base coat or the solvents migrating through the mask and reacting to the base coat .

You also assume all products were compatable. From your description the solvent used with the HOK could have been hot enough to attack and lift the base coat.
Danny Baronian
Baronian Mfg.
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Robare M. Novou
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Paint Mask Preference

Post by Robare M. Novou » Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:13 am

I tried some MacTac masking a while back after I ran out of Gerber mask. The MacTac masking cut on the plotter, held the small details better, and stuck better to the glass with a lot less bleed than the gerber mask.

I haven't tried it on anything else other than glass. If I were to need a masking again for glass, I would use the MacTac.

I also seem to remember the Gerber mask leaving a slight haze after removal. Not so with the MacTac masking.

RMN

Jay Allen
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Post by Jay Allen » Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:29 pm

Hi Jill,

We seldom paint with anything that 'hot'. Most of our stuff is water-based or OneShot type stuff. Mactac works very well for those things - as Robare suggested. The lower tack works very well on most applications - but I did say I hadn't used it in every application.

I am pleased to know that it didn't work for the hotter paints so I don't ever make that mistake!!! Sorry about your experience though. Now that I think about it, I don't recall ever seeing a product compatibility sheet - or other literature - on Mactac. It just works great with our system of doing things.

So use it if you use methods like we do - but not for things like Jill mentioned, I guess.

Hey Danny - how you doing? I suspect you are as busy as we are. Talk soon.

Jay

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Post by Mike Jackson » Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:06 pm

In retrospect, it would have made sense to do a test piece using MacTac using anything other than known paints. Now all you can say is "Who'd a thunk it?" :wink:

Mike
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Jill Marie Welsh
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Post by Jill Marie Welsh » Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:16 pm

:(
Unfortunately Hindsight is 20/20.
I never paint with anything other than 1-S or Ronan, so I stupidly assumed that masking would be OK with HOK. The rep said that the box says to do a test piece, but mine did not come in a box. Even my 20-year-old son said "Mom, he should have tested it". I just feel bad that I let my friend down.
I have used intermediate vynull as a paint mask with 1-Shot and a foam roller with great results. You just can't leave it on too long!
Love...Jill

Robare M. Novou
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Re: Paint mask choices

Post by Robare M. Novou » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:35 am

Got the following information from another sign forum on the internet.

"talked to a person at HH sign supply and was told the mactac MACmask is not designed for automotive paint. I ordered some R-Tape ProGrade paint mask from earl mich they were very helpful in answering my questions. Also the prograde is designed for automotive paint."

RMN
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Mark Summers
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Re: Paint mask choices

Post by Mark Summers » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:37 am

Found an interesting paint mask I have been using, Oracal 810
grey translucent. I've found it useful as I can use clear pick-up
tape and position it accurately.

Mark

Robare M. Novou
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Re: Paint mask choices

Post by Robare M. Novou » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:05 pm

Mark, have you tried the MACtac MACmask? If so, is it the same as the Oracal 810 Grey Paint Mask. Or are there variations between the two? The only difference I can see is the "conformability" of the Oracal 810. There is no mention of the "conformability" of the MACmask. So it maybe that the MACmask is only good on flat smooth substrates...which is fine for me. As I am just using it on glass.

I can order both from Fellers, and probably will, so I can conduct some testing.

MACmask comes in 24", 48", and 60" widths. But is shipped from the MACtac Warehouse in 55 yard long rolls.

Sure hope Fellers can cut it down to 10 yards for me. If not, Hello Oracal!

Here's what the Fellers Catalog says about the three Oracal Paint Mask Vinyls....

ORAMASK 810 Grey Paint Mask Vinyl
Good for conformable applications such as complex curves, uneven or semi-flexible substrates and surfaces.
The transparent grey film guarantees the visibility of the background. Low-tack water based adhesive.

ORAMASK 811 White Paint Mask Vinyl
Rigid white PVC film designed for use on smooth, flat substrates and surfaces.
Low-tack water based adhesive.

ORAMASK 813 Blue Paint Mask Vinyl
This transparent blue masking film guarantees the visibility of the background making it the best choice for multi-color requirements or when working with fine details. Polyacrylic with low-tack adhesive.

Oracal Paint Mask Vinyls come in 15", 24", and 30" widths. and are available by the yard. Sorry, no 48" width.

And, I see Avery makes two types of Paint Mask Vinyl. A white regular paint mask, and a yellow "baking" paint mask.

At this point I am assuming that all the brands of the white paint mask, Gerber, Venture, and Avery are the same.
Though I am sure there are those of you who would set the record straight on those products and their variations.

RMN
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Bryce Hutchinson
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Re: Paint mask choices

Post by Bryce Hutchinson » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:07 pm

I have been using Avery 3090 on aircraft for a long time. These aircraft are work horses with rivets everywhere and more, so a slight overspray, slight, is ok with the customer. Have done 4' Sheriffs badges, 6 color, 4 mask jobs, avery did a fine job. Never had a problem report from paint departments using dupont, PPG, or other 2 part paints, not even lacquers. Have made stencils for others and have not received a bad report. I also use Avery because I can get it with IBM punch. Never used the high temp yellow. Hate it when things go wrong, as stated: test.
Off topic: ugg, vinyl. Did a window with lettering, graphics, and stripe with copy, 7' x 9'. Bottom stripe 15" dark brown, with white copy. Almost finished by 4:30pm & decided to come the next morning. 10.30am a 5' horizontal crack behind the Brown stripe. ouch! $750.00 worth of glass. Insurance payed $550.00 but not the 34sq ft of material or time. Don't you just love working for free? Yep, I stopped the 15" stripe 1.25" from the edge of the window. Not every dinner is a banquet.

erik winkler
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Re: Paint mask choices

Post by erik winkler » Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:25 am

What kind of application tape should you use with Oracal 810?
The glue on my normal apllicationtape seems to be stronger then the glue of the Masking vinyl and so makes the maskintape worthless.

Erik
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Robare M. Novou
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Re: Paint mask choices

Post by Robare M. Novou » Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:41 pm

Are you using "HIGH TACK" or "LOW TACK" transfer tape?

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erik winkler
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Re: Paint mask choices

Post by erik winkler » Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:43 pm

It must be high tack...
Because we do not appreciate the vinyl not comming of the backing when we are applying on location.
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
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