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Hardener in Dekor?

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

Moderators: Ron Percell, Mike Jackson, Danny Baronian

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Raymond Chapman
Posts: 345
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:50 pm
Location: Temple. Texas

Hardener in Dekor?

Post by Raymond Chapman »

Would adding One Shot Hardener to Rick's Dekor back up paint help with cleaning up the gold or would it change the properties of the paint too much?

I'm about to back up some glass gold and the thought just entered my head. I've had no problem in the past just using it straight out of the tube with some solvents, but thought the extra protection of hardener might give me a little more security.

This is the second glass job I've done in the past few months. Hey, I'm on a roll. Usually it's something like five or six years between jobs. At this rate I may actually get the hang of this stuff.
Danny Baronian
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Post by Danny Baronian »

The added hardener would make the back up paint more durable, and in turn hold up better cleaning the gold.

John Studden's been adding 1 shot hardener to the back up prior to screening the back up for the bright lines at the last Memorial Conclave, and the paint held up better than I'd ever seen at any of the Conclave's.

If your painting by hand, add a few drops to the paint in a 5 oz dixie cup, screen printing - add 5% or less. If John's looking on here he can jump in any time.

Check with your local auto body supply for 1 Shot Hardener no. 4007, most local shops carry it.

That and the addition of using a brush John Jordan demonstrated at the first Memorial Conclave makes a tremendous difference in cleaning up.
Danny Baronian
Baronian Mfg.
CNC Routing & Fabrication
http://www.baronian.com
Raymond Chapman
Posts: 345
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:50 pm
Location: Temple. Texas

Thanks

Post by Raymond Chapman »

Now, that's what I call a quick response! Thanks for jumping in so soon.

I was just mixing up some paint, so I'll try it. I've got the hardener on hand, but don't have the "magic" brush. Guess that will wait until later.

By the way, what is this special brush...and where can I find it?
Doug Fielder
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Post by Doug Fielder »

John just mentioned somethng about 0000 steel wool for cleaning up the gold as well on my post, look there, you might get some other quick solutions too. Good luck!
Doug F.
FALLOUT Grafix
Port St Lucie, FL

Formerly from NJ, Formerly from VT,
Formerly from SF, CA, Formerly from NC,
Formerly from CO, FINALLY settled in FL!
Doug Fielder
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Post by Doug Fielder »

Here's the quote to save you the trip.......

"You can use around 5% 1-shot hardener in the back-up enamel, this improves it no end. And don't forget to stir that back-up well before use. When the outlines are dry you can very lightly rub them with 0000 steel wool to lower any ridges even more, and add 1 drop of IVORY washing up liquid per pint of size to pull the gold to the lines. Stay away from Bon Ami until the final clean up & use it dry and sparingly. Lately we have not bothered with a varnish outline as it seems to fail quickly & pull the edges with it, but that is a matter of choice."
Doug F.
FALLOUT Grafix
Port St Lucie, FL

Formerly from NJ, Formerly from VT,
Formerly from SF, CA, Formerly from NC,
Formerly from CO, FINALLY settled in FL!
Danny Baronian
Site Admin
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Post by Danny Baronian »

I don't know about magic, but here's a picture of it. It looks like a small shoe brush 4 1/2" long. They shouldn't be too hard to locate, this one is from Australia.

I would not use steel wool to clean up the gold as a general rule. What John suggested concerned the use of masks and varnish for matt centers and outlines, same with the ivory.

Any brush similar to this can be used by itself to clean the gold. Use the brush on the excess gold much like you would use a shoe brush to buff shoes. A very slight amount of moisture also helps.



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Danny Baronian
Baronian Mfg.
CNC Routing & Fabrication
http://www.baronian.com
John Studden
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Post by John Studden »

Raymond, Danny is right about the hardener, I did not mean to use the steel wool on gold, but on the black outlines before gilding...........& then a very light clean up with Bon-Ami before water gilding. Hope that is clear now.............................................
John Studden
Valencia Signs, California
Doug Bernhardt
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Post by Doug Bernhardt »

Hi all.....the magic brush is actually a jewellers brush. As to where to get them etc, haven't a clue. Jordan gave/sold me one last fall and use it everytime now. He uses whiting or calcium carbonate as a cleanser but I haven't actually noticed a difference (vs. bonami)...just smudge on a bit and pass the brush back and forth. Huge time and bright line saver!!! ..also, I have always (or at least the last 5 years) use hardner in my back-ups also. The dekkor was so self solvent that it made me crazy to wait so long (days) for it to cure enough to get down to business. Just don't mix more than you need as it is only good for that day.
Doug Fielder
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Post by Doug Fielder »

Whew! Thanks for the clarification.

Good thing I didn't try it huh?
Doug F.
FALLOUT Grafix
Port St Lucie, FL

Formerly from NJ, Formerly from VT,
Formerly from SF, CA, Formerly from NC,
Formerly from CO, FINALLY settled in FL!
Raymond Chapman
Posts: 345
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:50 pm
Location: Temple. Texas

Magic Brush

Post by Raymond Chapman »

Thanks to all. Hey, the hardener worked great!

With the magic brush, I assuming that only a small amount of water is used - not like cleaning the tires on your car or anything?

Doug - thanks for the clarification of what type brush it is. Now, I'll just do some searching and find a jeweler's supplier.

One more question....for some reason, trying to paint those little lines is a lot harder now than it was thirty years ago (must be poor quality brushes). Does anyone know a good source of those magnifying visor things that jewelers use? I guess I could find it at the same place I find the magic brush. Well, duh.

One more comment. I had forgotten how much fun glass gold is. I also had forgotten how frustrating it is.
Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson »

Raymond,
They are called OptiVisor.
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=opt ... i=froogler

I did a search on froogle.com for you.

Image

You'll look like Steven Parrish in a short while.

Mike
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
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John Studden
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Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:40 am

Post by John Studden »

Raymond,
The brush, when you find one, should be used dry not wet.
The idea is not to use water which when combined with bon-ami creates a grinding paste that will remove your fine lines really quickly.............
The short bristles remove the gold very easily. Only use bon-ami as a final light clean up to remove any halo that may be left.
John Studden
Valencia Signs, California
Raymond Chapman
Posts: 345
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:50 pm
Location: Temple. Texas

Parrish Look Alike

Post by Raymond Chapman »

Thanks for looking up the magnifiers for me, Mike. Doing this last gold job was frustrating trying to get my tri-focals into some position to be able to see those little lines. My eye doctor says that cataract surgery is next. Luckily, the surgeon is a good friend from church - maybe he won't poke my eyes out. As a matter of fact, the optometrist is a friend from church too. Hmmm.....maybe they have some sort of "arrangement" going.

A Parrish look alike? Maybe a SHORT look alike. Does that mean that I have to start wearing a tie and telling absurb stories?

By the way, Jackson, did the video work out for you?
Darryl Gomes
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:04 pm
Location: Underwood, Ontario Canada

Post by Darryl Gomes »

Along with the other methods of cleaning excess gold off, I have been using "Splash" application fluid concentrate to remove gold. Just wet a piece of cotton and rub gently, it seems to eat the gold right off the glass. Some stubborn bits need a litle bon ami. It really redudes the "grinding" that using bon ami or other powders can do to your bright line backup paint.

Darryl
Darryl Gomes
Underwood Ontario
Raymond Chapman
Posts: 345
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:50 pm
Location: Temple. Texas

Optivisor

Post by Raymond Chapman »

Ordered my "Optivisor" today from Cabela's.

I was in Fort Worth last Friday helping with the installation of some signs at the new Cabela's outlet store there and saw one displayed, so I just ordered from them. That place is unbelievable!! If you haven't been inside one, make a point to stop at the next one you see. Nothing but quality signage (and everything esle) everywhere you look. It's like a Six Flags for the outdoor enthusiast.

Stoner Graphix is responsible for the interior signage at the new stores and has done a fantastic job. My old friend Bob Gilliland was there doing the final installations and I was able to help a little. I even allowed him to twist my arm and buy me a steak.
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