mirror making question

[Russ McMullin]

Rather than hijack another thread I'll start my own.

I just got started today with the Master Tool Kit. My test pieces are 9"x12" panes from Lowe's. I did two of them, and I got some faint, cloudy swirls in the silvering. The swirls show up right after I put down the mixed silver solution. The first time I had forgotten to pour off the water on the glass so there was a small delay before I was able to pour on the silver. The second time I was prepared, and as soon as I mixed the 3 liquids in the paper cups I put the solution down on the glass. The swirls were more faint, but still there.

I tried hard to keep everything clean. The water is sheeting fine as far as my inexperienced eye can see. Could it be the tinning that is causing the problem? I think I may have waited too long at least once with the tin, maybe 20 seconds too long.

How important is it to clean the other side of the glass? The first time I cleaned both sides with an ammonia-based glass cleaner, and dish soap. Then I proceeded to clean just one side with the method outlined in the Master Tool Kit - with Cerium Oxide and concentrated glass cleaner. On my second attempt I didn't bother cleaning the back side, of the glass, although I did work on the edges. It didn't seem to matter much.

I'm sure I'm not the first to see this cloudy swirl problem. I'd appreciate any help I can get.

Russ

[Doug Bernhardt]

Hi Russ...does the cloudy swirl have a colour to it...as in a bluish-red rainbow...or just a mucky appearance? In my own work the clouds are usually from the sander-polisher and not a good rinse at the end. The above (or below for that matter) conversation on angel gilding applies to this as well. All the advice there is also perfect for this!...Good Luck!!!

[Russ McMullin]

I really haven't taken a good look at the front of the mirror yet, so I am going by what I'm seeing as the mirror is made. I silvered it twice and that didn't make much difference. The cloudy pattern is darker than the surrounding area - not really a color, just gray. Swirls may not be the right word. They aren't as regular as the swirls of the cerium oxide cleaning. It is more like a pattern that the silver solution seems to be making as I apply it around the edges first.

Russ

[Sarah King]

Cleaning the front - non-silvered - side of the glass doesn't matter as long as it's not dusty.

The swirls might be cerium oxide but I'd bet that your first guess was right and the problem is caused by the tin. If you leave the tin on too long you just need to rinse it off a little more. If the silver is depositing too fast, you might have too much tin on the glass. You could try a few different rinsing techniques as an experiment.

Also it sounds like your second mirror was better than your first one. Well, there's nothing like practicing - as my piano teacher told me before the family begged me to quit. At least mirror making is (supposed to be) quiet.

[Danny Baronian]

Russ, I would guess it's either contamination or the tin solution is too strong. With too much tin, or if the tin hasn't been washed off throughly, the silver will go off where the highest concentrations of tin is on the glass very fast which would could cause a whitish / gray cloudiness. Short of starting over, the discoloration will remain. Same with contamination.

Another possibility is that you applied the silver too slow. You need to get it on the glass as fast as possible without it spilling over the edges.

Dishwashing soap would be suspect too, but you said the second time you used what Sarah supplied. Use what's supplied in the kit or ammonia and whiting.

Clean both sides with glass cleaner, but follow the cleaning instructions and apply to the side to be silvered. Don't forget to rinse the glass after tinning with distilled water, and don't let the glass dry out, keeping it wet at all times until your ready to silver.

I believe you leave the tinning solution on for 30 seconds, but timing isn't that critical as long as the glass is rinsed well, which could include a high pressure spray from a garden hose.

[Mike Jackson]

I believe you said:

I really haven't taken a good look at the front of the mirror yet

If that is the case, take the time to look at the FRONT of the mirror right away! That is the part that matters. Almost all of our silvering jobs are splotchy and ugly on the back side.

Mike Jackson

[Russ McMullin]

I really appreciate the feedback.

I had looked at the fronts briefly, but they hadn't been backed up. Hoping it would make a difference I applied the backup paint and went to work - where I wrote my post.

I came home and turned the mirrors over. The blemishes are still there. I did my best to capture it in a photo. In the top image it's a little difficult to see what's going on so I cloned it and drew the shape of the blemish on the bottom image.


It's definitely something with pouring the solution on - either the tin or the silver. The shape of the blemish matches the pours. I think I'll try again tomorrow with a shorter time on the tin.

I labeled the little one-ounce measuring cups so I know what was in each. Can I rinse them out and use them over?

How photo-sensitive are the silvering solutions? How dark should the storage container be?

Russ

[Mike Jackson]

Russ,
My first "off the cuff" comment would be if you got that good of results on your first piece, you should be pretty darned happy. My second one would be to tell you to read over the comments above and then just go do another dozen pieces. Most of the problems are probably tin, rinsing, and speed related. Tin the piece well for 15 seconds to a minute, rinse thoroughly, and then quickly cover the surface with a flood coat of silver before the surface film of water has a chance to start evaporating.

Lastly, just remember a few practicle tidbits. Unless you are really trying to get a solid mirror to put in your bathroom, you are probably going to back up the piece with paint and clean off 75% to 90% of the mirrored surface. A very small cloud or stain line will normally not be noticeable in a finished piece. And, of course, silver mirroring solution is cheap. You can do lots of test pieces for not much money—and you can clean off a piece of glass and silver it over and over until you get the process down.