Welcome to The Hand Lettering Forum!
This is an interactive Bulletin Board on the topics of Sign making, design, fabrication, History, old Books and of coarse Letterheads, Keepers of the craft. The Hand Lettering Forum features links to resources, sign art history, techniques, and artists profiles. Learn more about Letterheads at https://theletterheads.com. Below you'll see Mchat has been added as a live communication portal for trial, and the Main forum Links are listed below.

AHEM! Hand lettering!

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

Moderators: Ron Percell, Mike Jackson, Danny Baronian

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oatis
Posts: 66
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:33 am

AHEM! Hand lettering!

Post by oatis »

How soon the conversation becomes about the justifications for using typeset vinyl. Of course, it's not the medium, but the letters themselves that are the problem.

Leslie Cabarga has published a great new book,(chock-full 'o pictures and plates) called, "The Lettering and Graphic Design of F.G. Cooper"--and it's a MUst for your library. F.G. Cooper, (not to be confused w/ Oz Cooper, the inventor of Cooper Black) was one of America's pre-eminent illusrators and letterers for advertising, and in his own writings discourses loud and eloquently on the superiority of the hand lettered form:

"Lettering should be fun. Not only fun, but it should be as individual as handwriting, and for the same reason. It should be developed with the same independence, the same freedom from outside influences as handwriting. Lettering struck an awful snag in the river of time when printing was invented. Typography tends to establish letter forms frozen in tradition and LIMITED BY ITS MECHANICAL MECHANISM. (MY caps, sorry) The designing of typefaces, or imitations thereof, should be left to the type designers. A panel of landlettering done in slavish imitation of type usually can be better done by type itself."

We collect billheads and advertising ephemera from a hundred years ago because we, (and many other Non-designer enthusiasts) can instantly recognize the inherent, handlettered beauty of it. How collectible will 2004-vintage print design be in 2104? You already know the answer.

It's the stiff small copy that makes so much of the stuff in the mags stop short of being interesting. Its the spunky small copy that'll still make you stop and squint at EVERY SINGLE showcard in a Gary Godby A.M.A.L. spread, or drool over an Atkinson plate. We ought'nt to toss out with both hands that in which the ESSENCE ITSELF resides.

Do pick up the Cooper book:ISBN: 088108-192-2.

Available from Cabarga himself at: www.lesliecabarga.com
Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson »

Hi Mark,
Somehow I have to grin a bit when I read your post. The intent of the post is noble and it's taken that way, but I find myself thinking of the preacher preaching to the congregation and the choir. Much of the sermon is designed to stear people down the rightheous path during the week ahead. However, as the preacher dispells his message, in the real world, he knows none of them can stay perfectly on the straight and narrow.

There is wisdom and purity of spirit in your message. Most of us will be inspired that there are some still true to their quest. The Hand Lettering Forum might act as a microphone and beacon to help spread the message. Carry on!

With that said, I should also explain the overall picture as "the founders" of the site tried to establish as the nature of the Forum. Sarah Schwartz started the Forum a long time ago as an alternative site to all the whiz bang computerized sites. Being a calligrapher and sign painter, the name seemed to make sense. Even in its best period, the old Hand Lettering Forum was never strictly about hand lettering. When the site was adopted by The Original Letterheads Web Site, I contacted a few people to try to get a feel of the overall scope we should include. Kent Smith, Carol Chapel, Sarah Schwartz and a couple of others were in on the conversations. It was apparent that the long periods of silence on the Sarah's old board were indications that many of the readers didn't really "need" to discuss much about hand lettering. Ironically, questions were seldom directly about hand lettering, but more about books, fabrication, design and so forth. We decided to expand the scope of the site (keeping the name) to include most aspects of design and fabrication, as displayed in under the banner above. If a new painter did find the site and wanted to know the best brush oil, numerous readers would share information about their favorite procuct. To reduce confusion a bit, maybe we should have renamed the forum a long time ago, but I think we all wanted to keep the name.

Darla and I made a lot of signs today, however we didn't hand letter a single one of them. I think I am supposed to feel bad (?), but I don't! As a choir member, I feel best about this issue when I find a particular project in my schedule that I really want to dedicate the "passion" towards and then feel great about investing into it. The rest of the time, we do a professional quality job and make both myself and our customers happy.

Best wishes,
Mike Jackson
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
Jill Marie Welsh
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:40 am
Location: Butler, PA USA

Post by Jill Marie Welsh »

I am fresh back from Pat Welter's Paint the Prairie meet in Unity, Saskatchewan.
I think it was my 20th meet in the 10 years that I've been attending them.
Talk about passion.
It was the most ego-free meet that I have ever been to. We were all bonded together through the simple love of painting a letter or pulling a line. It was magic.
Nothing can ever replace the wonder of working with a brush.
The teaching of the craft to a newbie is very gratifying too.
Love...Jill
Dan Seese
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm
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Post by Dan Seese »

Mark,
Not wanting to be a Luddite or to "rage against the machine" I've been an advocate for recogonizing and using technology where appropriate.
Having said that some of your points are a needed reminder for me amidst the cacophony of pressures and allurements to rely on all the latest technology.
Any of the computer generated fonts are merely an attempt to codify, for the sake of mass-production, something that was originally created BY HAND. That is apropos in many cases but not at the expense of abandoning the primary source.
As time passes my brushes lie increasingly idle. Some of that is driven by the need to turn a profit, some by laziness and the ease of computer-generated work and some by the fact that I actually enjoy using the computer. But it's impossible to capture the freshness and intimacy of what a brush or pen can create by turning to "fonts". I think of the dynamic & raw look of a Tom Seibert design or a Carl Rohrs stroke or some of the lettering that inspired me in the early SignCraft spreads when the majority of the work was hand-lettered.
In some ways I feel like "Well, I'll never be as good as _______. . ." but ingesting an integrating into myself the works of those I admire is a large part of what makes me better. After all I think only a true "keeper of the craft" is able to be a meaningful vanguard in the craft as well. So all this is to say, I have no plans to abandon my computer but there is an "amen" coming from this choir boy.
After I press the "submit" button on this post I plan to go to Leslie Carbaga's site and order his book - something I've been meaning to do. Then I promise to have some fun, i.e. to get a neglected brush wet today.
Preach it, Bro.
Jay Allen
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:32 am

Post by Jay Allen »

I could sit and read comments from Mark and Dan all day. What profound thoughts!! I am honored to know both of you.

Irony? You can buy computer fonts from Cabarga.

Mike Jackson - great analogy re: the preacher and the congregation.

Back to a point I made in the last post regarding the definition of 'hobby'.

hobby : a pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in especially for relaxation

Can't we exist doing both occupation AND hobby - realizing that we can never derive pleasure and passion 100% of the time? Give me a decent paycheck - alter some of those stiff fonts Mark accurately describes for the designs that require a little more effort (partially reinventing the wheel - not totally) - and leave me be when it is time to pack up and go to a meet with my fellow "hobbyists".

I have taken what I learned from my predecessors in the Letterheads and made a nice living off the knowledge. (Thank you all!!) I never learned how to brush letter until I went to a meet and learned. To me, that's the only way to learn the art of sign design - learn like the brush letterers did. Since practice makes perfect, I regrettably find little time in the busy, day-to-day world to practice. So I use the computer to my advantage and wait until the next meet to 'wet a neglected brush' as Dan so eloquently put it.

I wholeheartedly agree that hand lettering needs to be continually taught since, in my opinion, it gives one a better sense of layout and understanding of the contruction of letters. That's what changed my ability to design a better sign. But the realities of the real world limit most of us who can't compete with designers as talented as Mark who CAN make a nice living with the brush merely off their portfolios and reputation. Me? I'm satisfied that he can't do work for everybody - leaving some scraps for the rest of us.

As far as technology goes this conversation reminds me of the guy on PBS (The Woodwright's Shop) who makes ALL his furniture by hand - the way it was done by old cabinetmakers 'pre-machination'. Sorry, but that seems a little foolish to me. Ask this of George Hepplewhite or Duncan Phyfe when you get to the "great beyond": "How much more furniture could you have built in your lifetime using modern equipment and technology?" No, quantity does NOT make quality. But you can hit more often if you take more shots instead of spending all your time aiming for the quintessential shot. (No - I'm not a gun enthusiast!! - just an analogy)

I suspect they would be envious of those who use machinery to create masterpieces they NEVER dreamed of because of the limitations of handcrafted work. That being said, as masters they would likely be critical of MUCH of the factory-built furniture of today. But there are still people doing it by hand - they just use technology to quicken the process a bit - and make some outstanding pieces that NEVER could have been created by the old masters using what they had to work with.

The adaptation to the modern world is necessary for any advancement - or, more specifically, survival. Clinging to the old ways will leave you like the guy who just left my shop - and old Walldog from Chicago who now is forced to live with his daughter and must take any work he can just to get by instead of enjoying his retirement. Now, since they don't get along, he is being forced to move out and can't afford to live alone unless he starts working again - at age 77. Passion? Noble. But certainly not reality.

Mark is right. This post isn't about the justification of using vinyl - it's about passion for the lettering arts and understanding what to do with it to create a superior product. Sometimes technology alone can't do that (create a superior product). I still start designing with my brain and a pencil. It doesn't get any closer to 'hand-lettering' than that. If it goes to the computer next, well, that may help keep me from moving in with my son when I'm 77 because I didn't prepare myself to adapt to the realities of this chosen profession.

Passion feeds our souls - not our bellies. Boy, I can't wait to get to a Letterhead meet again!! My soul is starving.

Jay
Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson »

Jay,
Jump in your truck and zip over to Lincoln, Il.
July 21 & 24th 2004....Lincoln Wall Dogs...Lincoln IL
That should feed your soul and charge your creative batteries!

Mike Jackson
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
Catharine C. Kennedy
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 5:28 am
Location: Chatham Center, NY

Post by Catharine C. Kennedy »

Just ordered my copy of Cooper's book- Thanks for the heads-up!
Catharine C. Kennedy
Chatham Center, NY
John Lennig
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Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 10:53 am
Location: Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada
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books

Post by John Lennig »

well, more fun with a credit card! I went to Leslie's website, and was Invited to....call him..on the phone...and he answered!!..no merry-go-round of for this, press that...

Got the Cooper book,(awaiting shipment) 100 years of letterheads, and the Bible of Stuff, he sez'...it's where all my good stuff is."

thanks for the information here! books are good!

John Lennig / SignRider
"You spelled it wrong!"
Carol
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:50 am
Location: Oregon
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Leslie Cabarga

Post by Carol »

Hi, when I saw the name Leslie Cabarga it caught my attention. I haven't gone to his website yet (probably should of before I started this) but I bought his book:Letterheads published back in '92. On the cover is his name and the Y in a thick and thin face is backwards. It just jumped at me and has colored my feeling about him ever since. I even dropped a line to him via Chronicle Books who published it. But of course never got a reply. Perhaps he had nothing to do with the design of the cover, but since it says he has been a designer since the age of 14 (!) I assumed that he at least approved it.
That said, it's a nice reference book with lots of eye candy of letterheads and billheads. Most of them are letterpress; pre-offset. It's worth looking at for sure.v
Art is a technique of communication. The image is the most complete technique of all communication.
Claus Oldenburg
You are invited to visit www.carolchapel.com
Lee Littlewood
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Post by Lee Littlewood »

Once, a long time ago when I was a wee beginner (I think it was last month) I was agonizing over the "time spent on job" / "payment received" ratio for a bunch of jobs and i had a couple of thoughts. One was ,"Maybe I don't need to gild every sho-card" and that was a useful concept: often the job just needs a simple, clean response and no furbelows. Sometimes one does better to bottle up the decorative impulse and save it for an appropriate use. Which led to the second thought - "Why am i doing elaborate productions for US Bank? They don't appreciate it although they can afford it. The ones who need personalizing are the Mom & Pop grocery store, who of course can't afford it." So what I have tried to do is to pick my money-losers rather than have them happen by accident (yeah, well, that's the theory) and try to do something inefficient but fun now and then (I try for once a month). I find I feel a lot better losing money if i do it on purpose, and it encourages me to try new (and old) methods. i like to tell the client some of this, something like, "Give me all your budget and wait a long time and you might get something really nice. I need a piece like this for my portfolio." Calling it a 'portfolio piece' seems to make people more relaxed about it, and since this sort of work is all about 'feel' it usually involves hand lettering, although all it needs is to use whatever turns your crank.
"Passion, Our Best Loss Leader."
sounds like a name for a band
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