Opaque Projectors... What do you use?

Doug Fielder · Post by **Doug Fielder** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:12 pm

Hey, it is time to buy my first opaque projector and I am wondering who is using what and what I should look for when purchasing.

Thank you in advance.

Roderick Treece · Post by **Roderick Treece** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:40 pm

Doug,
Funny you should post this question.I keep wondering from time to time if I should sell my projector.I use a 35+ year old artograpgh MS 230 I borrowed from my dad who borrowed it from Knott's Berry Farm.
I am just finishing up with 2 hand painted 4"x 12" signs .The customer created their own art work with a word program that my computer couldn't read ,so First I tryied to find the font he used to no availe.Then I thought well I coud scan and vectorize the art , then Make a pounce pattern with my plotter ( gotta love that) and all that money for the butler class going to go use .But then why not just pop it in the old projector, blow it up and pounce it.My pounce wall is huge so I can inlarge and pounce with out moving the pattern.
So with that said I know I will never not have a projector.I have freinds that have the transparent over head projectors and that's a plus because you don't have to wait until it's dark to project like me, but you do need a transparence .Mine uses a paper copy of the artwork.Also for projecting it's good to layout some grid lines on your wall so when you go to tape up your paper you know your level and you have the lenth you want.

Hope that helps.

Roderick

www.customglasssigns.com

vance galliher · Post by **vance galliher** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:49 pm

.....great post !....I started making signs in "74",......... and within a couple of months i knew i had to have a projector, .... and i got an overhead (transparency) projector for 50 bucks..(and i still have it)...in the early years i traced over lots of acetate, then started going to kinkos to make reductions/ enlargements and trancparencies , then i got a copy machine for 150 buck, so now i rarly go to kinkos anymore........30 yrs later and even with all the new technology available, it's still one of my best friends !! ....I used it today..

Post by **Mike Jackson** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:51 pm

Doug,
I bought an opaque projector right after I got started...seems like it was called Rigit-Damar or something close. It was a good machine, but I would never buy another one and don't have it now.

Technology has advanced by too far to ever consider an opaque projector. First, they were hot, requiring light to be bounced off the page and back up to the mirrors. They required an almost black roon, and the often distorted the images a LOT.

Consider an OVERHEAD projector similar to the old ones used by the math teachers. They are relatively cheap and require only a transparency. With today's scanner and printers, you can scan your art (assuming you are talking about a color photo), print it out on clear transparency film and then project it. If you artwork is black and white, you can just run it through a copier onto transparency film.

Good luck if you do decide on an Opaque projector. In my opinion, they would be like a scrub board compared to a new Maytag washer.

Mike Jackson

Tony Segale · Post by **Tony Segale** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:13 am

Doug,

When I started, I purchased an overhead projector and have been using the same one for the past twenty years. Later, when I purchased a copier,
the feature that mattered to me was the machine's capibilities to produce transparencies.
I've used the projector for logo reproduction, pencil sign layout repro,
pictiorial and mural work. The famous Butler workshop was an invaluable experience for me, because I seldom found time to learn computer program tools. And I use those lessons at times.
But, I find lately, that more of my designs are still created with a pencil or calligraphy pen/brush, and I can easily project into a large pattern, or a full color pictorial onto a wall. I also find it easier to sell a logo/letterhead after the finished gilded window or custom sign, the customer likes the piece and the image it "projects" for their business. I've also enlarged digital photos to paint.
I'll never get rid of my overhead projector.

Doug Fielder · Post by **Doug Fielder** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:52 am

Hey, thanks for the good tips!

So, does the overhead work with velum and tracing type papers? Or does it need to be a full transparency?
I am a minimalist, that is why at 31yo I am doing everything by hand, so I am trying to do away with having to scan things and print them out etc. I am also trying to borrow my Mentor Harry's old projector to try it out. I have used and opaque in college back in 1995, it was an old one, but I did like it, however if the OHP is a better bet, then I will check out the state surplus store.

Tony Segale · Post by **Tony Segale** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:27 am

With the OHP, all images need to be copied to a transparency.
I have a small HP color copier that can create a transparency from a black and white or full color image.
If you don't have a copier, a local printer/copier store can create a transparency for you (around here it costs $1-$1.50).
You can purchase an OHP at an office supply store, a one time purchase you will never regret.

Doug Bernhardt · Post by **Doug Bernhardt** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:29 pm

Hold on Dudes....that copying to transparency stuff is WAY old hat. I have a 20 or so year old Artograph 500 (opaque) and is worth it's weight in gold! Will blow up a business card to a 4x8 in the space of 10' from the wall.....not that that needs to be done much anymore....BUT what the hay... ;=) it's worth bragging a little here. True Mike that it does distort a triffle, but I've always redrawn, to some extent, the projected image and always needed curtains of one variety or the other...also...technology schmecnology....sometimes we need to step back cause it's just plain easier. Now I think I better try and defend that statement fast (and through all this my tongue is wedged quite deeply into my cheek and the full intent is humour to some degree) but since the tech side of the business has come to dominate it is interesting to see how often large bandaids are applied to very simple solutions.

Post by **Mike Jackson** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:42 pm

Doug....yes, but....(

) ...

I have had both...overhead and opaque projectors. The overheads were much easier to use (but do require the transparency), can be used in a semi-dark room, and distort the image less. In a way, they are both "primitive" technology, compared to making a scan, raster to vector and cleaning up the pounced pattern "on the fly" with a brush.

The other step backward, using that rationalle, would be to scale up your drawings using grids. That would eliminate the need for either type of projector, but would require a lot more SKILL than any of the above.

There are dozens of "lines in the sand" that are drawn or crossed by each of us each day. On quite a few occasions, I have tried what sounded like a better way using new technology, only to discover it didn't save time or labor. Then, on many other occasions, I decide a newly tried technique is easier or better with today's resources.

I saw a movie once where a model stood in a specific pose between a candle and a fresco wall while the artist drew in the contour of the shadow with charcoal (Michaelangelo). While it wasn't quite a projector, it served a similar means to an end. Now, he'd probably snap an photo with his digital camera, print a slide, and project it direct to the wall. There might even be some light sensitive surface paint that burn a temporary image onto the wall.

Mike

Tony Segale · Post by **Tony Segale** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:58 am

well then, let me just jump back in for a little tussle here...

to be honest, I've never used an opaque, though I've always wanted to try one, the overhead always seemed to work for me...but this is an old dog who is willing to learn new tricks...
as far as the grid, I've used that quite a few times, I really enjoy that approach, being outdoors drawing on a wall is quite an interest creating advertisement on it's own....
the quick scan and rasterize to vector, well, I haven't really tried the quick version, though I should, it seems every time I scan it's to create a clean vectorized image for a precise pattern and logo for camera ready art. I know I could clean it up on the fly with a brush, I'll have to try that one soon...
same old story, try them all and find which works best for you. I still like the challenge of drawing from real life or a photo without projecting...

ah, the thrill of the artistic challenges

Doug Fielder · Post by **Doug Fielder** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:32 am

Hey all,

I have tried the Opaque projectors before, and liked it. I have looked around at new projectors and the OHP are $300+, whereas the Opaques are from $150+ (for one that seems decent). Haven't had a chance to look for used ones.
I have also done the draw it then scan it then clean it up.... which is 3 steps and is kind of frustrating for me, but is also a solution. I am trying to get back into sketching and creating on the fly, something I have lost since being out of school and being stuck in front of a computer. I have never been keen on the grid system, but have learned that as well.

Opaque Projectors... What do you use?

Opaque Projectors... What do you use?

projectors........