glue chipping question......

vance galliher · Post by **vance galliher** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:30 pm

I have been glue chipping now for at least 20 years. I started with bob mitchell's book, using scales and weights/volume.... real exacting measurments stuff .....then i met rick..... and it became simply 1:1.......... more or less of one depending on the area to be chipped.....At all the conclaves i've been to it was so automatic........ glue up Friday, put it in the hot box, come in the next morning chipped and ready for the next step...... Why is it aways such an arduous task in my studio ?.....I apply the glue, wait til it hardens, put it in the hot box (just likes rick's , fan and all),.and wait.......and wait..........and wait.......take it out, let it sit in the hot sun on the hood of my van.......and wait...... .back in the box.....a little chipping takes place. but it's now on the third day and i'm still waiting.???? so my question is .....if any of you get a consistent chip within a reasonable time , please share you method........thanks

Post by **Danny Baronian** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:39 pm

Where did you get the glue, how old is it, has it gotten damp,has it worked before and how have previous pieces chipped?

Post by **Mike Jackson** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:57 pm

Vance,
A LONG time ago, I bought 100 lbs of glue and used it successfully for years. Darla and I did a workshop for the Boise meeting in 2000 and got Rick to send us a few pounds of his glue for the project glass pieces. We discovered Rick's glue was much slower than our old stuff. I was happy to get back home and use our good stuff again.

After Rick passed away, we searched around for a replacement supply for the Hard to Find Sign Supplies Page. In the process, Danny Baronian and I spoke with the main tech guy at Milligan Higgins. I'd have to go dig through all my old notes, but the bottom line is there is a lot of difference in the different grades of glue. Part of the problem was caused by the way Rick originally labeled his glue. He originally sold 3X and 5X glue. In his system, 3x was weaker and 5X was stronger. Somehow he got it backwards, as explained by the tech guy. Anyway, there are strengths of glue that are so stong they can break the glass, and others that are much, much weaker...depending on the needs for that glue. (glue-chipped glass is a very small side market for the use of animal hide glue).

I told the tech guy our glue was dark green. He said they hadn't made that specific kind for a long time. Most of it now is more of a tan or ochre color.

If I were just guessing, I'd say you have some less desireable glue, maybe even from the same batch Rick sent us for the Boise meeting. As Danny mentioned, your glue might have been allowed to absorb water, but I don't think that is as much of a problem as it might sound. Many people, including Pat Mackle, reused their glue over and over, adding new glue to their pot mix as needed. Relative humidity might be more of a problem, causing the glue to not really be ready to shrink and crack the glass.

Mike Jackson

vance galliher · Post by **vance galliher** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:11 am

I buy glue in the sealed 1# bags and I normally get 6-8 bags at a time. I've gotten it from several places......Esoteric (and I believe those bags were marked with 5X), Pacific Coast Sign Supply in Portland , and a local art glass supply store. The label on these bags just say "glass chipping glue 1 lb. All the glue is amber in color. I have a large plastic container with a screw top that hold about 3 # , and when I open the sealed bags, the glue is stored in this container.
I've done a lot of chipping, and usually gets some awsome results. But 80% of the time in getting the chip is a frustrating experience at best. Glass work is a large part of what I do and I love it ! I'm just wanting some consistency with the chipping process. I etch the glass in my blast room with silicon carbide, heat the glue in a glue pot, adding more mix when needed My heat box temp gets between 130-145 and the humiidity is around 40-50% (Rick says optimum is 35% or below).
I crying out for help here folks! I just don't know what else to do. So if you chip glass and are able to get consistent successes. please describe what you do, where you get your glue, etc. Thanks for all replies

Post by **Danny Baronian** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:40 pm

Vance, as Mike said the glue your using may be suspect. I purchased 100lbs of glue from Pearson Sales Co Inc (626) 851-8129
5268 Rivergrade Rd - Irwindale, CA., and split the bag with Dave Smith in England, it has worked fine for both of us. The glue is made by Milligan & Higgins, and is the same as sold through Esoteric. I believe it's the 164 gram strength, and works 100 % of the time.

I use 180 mesh silicon carbide which works ok, but I've seen work by others that use 100 mesh silica sand and the chip is a little nicer. I'm using a dehumidifier along with a catalytic heater. It's not the heat that drys the glue evenly, but getting the humidity as low as possible, drawing the moisture out of the glue.

In talking with Pat Mackle, descriptions of what Rawson & Evans used were oil heaters. They applied the glue, started the oil heaters, similar to portable kerosene heaters, let sit over night, and they were chipped in the morning. This seemed to be done year round in Chicago. The purpose for the heaters was to remove the moisture from the air more than heating. Remember Rick had the pellet stove in back? I think that also served to drop the humidity.

With a dehumidifier going it a cabinet, you can get a good chip overnight with the temperature as low as 80 deg. If your maintaining a temperature of 135-140 that could be a problem. I don't think that's far from the point of melting the glue.

Do a search on the forum for pictures of Larry White's chipping room, he has some photos and information that would be useful.

Check this page out too:

http://www.theletterheads.com/lhparts/gluechip.html

Try a single, reliable glue source, and drop the humidity and temperature.

Hopefully that helps. Let us know how it works. With pictures.

Jeff Umsted · Post by **Jeff Umsted** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:07 am

Hi Vance. I am no chipping expert as you guys are but I will share my experience with you. Living in Mich. it is usually humid. I get great chips in the winter months when the humidity is low around 10-20%. Summer months take forever. I have a breeze way that I do my chipping in. I use a small space heater placed about 2' away from the vertical standing glass, never letting the temp to go above 120 deg. Once the humidity in the room gets down to or below 30% I will start getting good fast chips. Usually around 24-36 hours total time. If the humidity is above 30% in the room then I have had chip times take as long as 50 hours! It did chip though!!

I have a temp/ barometer/ relative humidity gage that I put next to the glass in the room. When that sucker hits 30% on the humidity gage things start chipping and popping and I know it won't be long till its done. My fastest chip times have been with 10% humidity/ 115 deg temp. total time to chip 6 sq.. feet was 16 hours once placed in the room. Maybe this info will help you gage your situation and help better control your chipping conditions or allow you to change some of them. Good luck!

David Harding · Post by **David Harding** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:44 pm

I have done glue chipped glass for about 20 years but have not done one recently. For me, the problematical part was getting the glass to chip on any sort of predictable schedule.

We found the answer in our small bathroom at the shop. There is a shower stall there about 3' x 3' that has only been used for storage. We place the glass in there, put in a $20 Wal-Mart electric heater, pull the curtain shut and in about an hour, it sounds like popcorn popping in the shower.

Of course, a person would never want to take a shower in a stall like that without a thorough clean up, and even then only with OSHA approved steel toed shower sandals. I guess I could say: "Don't try this at home."