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Glue Problem

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

Moderators: Ron Percell, Mike Jackson, Danny Baronian

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Raymond Chapman
Posts: 345
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:50 pm
Location: Temple. Texas

Glue Problem

Post by Raymond Chapman »

This morning I started mixing up some glue chip glue and it has reacted differently than before. I need your help in finding out what went wrong.

The first batch I mixed was from some older glue that I had bought from Rick. It was put into the pot and then water added as usual. Instead of the glue absorbing all the water and becoming like oatmeal, it absorbed about half the water and then became very stringy and now has a mass of ugly looking jello-like stuff but with lots of thin "glue water" around it. I've tried stirring several times and the glob just moves around with the stick or strings out in long strands. It had been sitting for about an hour.

Thinking that maybe the glue was old/bad in some way, I mixed up another batch using some new glue that I recieved from Letterhead Supply. Surprisingly, it has done the same thing.

Now, here I am dead in the water without a clue as to what is happening. I've used up all the glue I have and there are several jobs on the table waiting to be chipped.

Any solutions from you folks that do this all the time?
Larry White
Posts: 1213
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:18 am

glue blobs..

Post by Larry White »

Hi Raymond-
I've encountered both reactions, the "oatmeal" version and the odder blob of coagulated honey surounded by liquid. I just plugged in the pot and let it cook up. The molten glue appeared the same as usual. It also work the same as all other times.

...plug it in and go...

-LW
Raymond Chapman
Posts: 345
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:50 pm
Location: Temple. Texas

Thanks

Post by Raymond Chapman »

Thanks for the quick reply Larry.

I plugged it in - now we'll see what happens.

One of these glass pieces has to be in Oklahoma Friday evening. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that everything goes well. We already have some time invested in carving a bunch of scroll work.

And, by the way, we used some of those famous Jackson clip art pieces to make up the design. Wow, they are really good. (Just thought I would make Mike feel good)
Larry White
Posts: 1213
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:18 am

Post by Larry White »

Did it work?
Raymond Chapman
Posts: 345
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:50 pm
Location: Temple. Texas

Post by Raymond Chapman »

Larry - the glue melted, looked and smelled just like normal. We put the glue on the glass yesterday afternoon - this morning it was to the "leather" stage and is in the chipping box now.

The humidity here has been very high, so the humidity in the box is now only 45% after about three hours. Two small pieces have already begun to chip but the glue on them had a little less water in the ratio than the larger piece, which is still just sitting there.

At least we know that it will chip.

I had called Ron and Kristi Percell yesterday morning (since I had purchased some of the glue from them) and they had no idea what had happened either.

So, I guess it was just one of those flukes, but it seems to be working just like always.

Thanks Larry for coming to the rescue so quickly and calming my nerves.
Mike Jackson
Site Admin
Posts: 1705
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:02 pm
Location: Jackson Hole, WY
Contact:

Post by Mike Jackson »

Raymond,
Pat Mackle tells us he always reuses his old glue. According to him, Rawson and Evans and the other big chippers had a big vat of their core glue, then added fresh glue into that vat as they used it. I normally use an old Tupperware measuring cup (about 2 cups), heat it in the microwave, and let the excess harden in the cup afterwards. I just add some water to soften it and reheat it on the next job. I have seen it look a bit stringy, too, but never affected the mechanics of the chip.

It is raining here right now. We had a wet June, followed by a dry July and half of August. It feels nice right now, but I hope it clears for the weekend.

Mike
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
Doug Bernhardt
Posts: 1077
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:29 am
Location: Ottawa Canada
Contact:

Post by Doug Bernhardt »

Ray... I am on the last few pounds of an old supply of glue from before I met Rick and was wondering about the re-ordering. Look forward to hear the results also. Have three pieces chipping at the shop just now also. It has been very hot and extremely humid here so this was doing it's thing in the shop for the past as I was away anywho.
Raymond Chapman
Posts: 345
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:50 pm
Location: Temple. Texas

Follow Up

Post by Raymond Chapman »

Just a follow up for those interested - the "strange" glue worked just fine (just like Larry said it would) and the three pieces are complete.

The chip was consistent throughout and took about 24 hours in the booth, although the humidity never went below 35%.

The chip pattern was long shards, some rather large. There were a few places where the chip extended beyond the frosted area and broke into some small clear lines - mainly because there were large chipped areas on each side.

Question? This pattern was nice, but I would like a more shell like design. What do I change? Glue to water ratio? Layer thickness? Or what?

Also, I remember that Rick experimented with adding a dehumidifier to his booth. Does anyone remember if this sped up the process significantly? Or do you use one yourself? We have high humidity and a dehumidifier might just do the trick.
Raymond Chapman
Posts: 345
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:50 pm
Location: Temple. Texas

Texas Weather Report

Post by Raymond Chapman »

Special weather bulletin for Mike Jackson.....Mike you would feel right at home down here in Texas - probably bring back a lot of old Moore memories.

For several days we have been basking in 100 degree temperatures and heat indexes around 110. Perfect weather for post hole digging.

I know you're envious, but some of us get to live in these paradise places.
Doug Bernhardt
Posts: 1077
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:29 am
Location: Ottawa Canada
Contact:

Post by Doug Bernhardt »

the perfect chip....and yes I know the one you mean. Might be described as a snail chip?...? Deep with no blasting showing?..? I get that in the winter...when the rooms are hot and the humidity is less than the Saharah desert. Did a piece which was at Glawson and Evans for a few years and was always asked what the secret was to that chip!...I still have only that as a guess!
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