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glass sign sequence of techniques (?)

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

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cam bortz
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am

glass sign sequence of techniques (?)

Post by cam bortz »

:?: In planning a glass piece using both gc and acid etch(on differnt areas), which process should be done first? I'm planning a job with glue-chip background and acid-etch on the letter centers, but don't want to get ahead of myself.
John Studden
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Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:40 am

Post by John Studden »

Cam, I would do the Acid stage first as ther could be more chances of this going wrong than the chipped areas that will be a longer process.
Are you screening or hand cutting? Either way just cut & expose the Acid part first, that can normally be done in I/2 hour or less, wash off, let the glass harden a while the recover those areas & carry on with the sandblasting for the Chipped areas. Good luck, John
John Studden
Valencia Signs, California
Russ McMullin
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Post by Russ McMullin »

At Larry White's "Dead Man" meet it seems like everyone did the acid first - probably because after the glue chipping the mask was coming off. We temporarily covered up the areas that were going to be glue chipped, and applied the acid. After the acid was finished, and the residue washed off, we applied the glue. I'm not sure if the same would be true if the asphaltum method were used. We didn't use asphaltum.

We found that masking tape will soak up the acid. It didn't end up mattering because the acid was applied to specific areas, but it's something to keep in mind.

Russ
Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson »

Cam, this might be a case where I'd try to "plan" the job to work smarter, not harder! I think a lot depends on the design, and whether you are submersing the glass with acid...or using the Mica flakes. I like the look of the Mica etch, and it seems safer, plus you can daub the flakes into specific areas of the design. It is a sludge, vs a liquid and will basically stay put. Also, it is much cheaper, because you only mix up enough to to the job. The actual acid concentration is higher, but you don't have to have gallons of an acid bath open in the shop.

Remember, ACID IS DANGEROUS! USE ALL NECESSARY CAUTIONS!

Back when we did the Atkinson piece, we used Anchor Continental stencil and opened areas for the acid, carefully...make sure not to overcut the corners with your knife. After we did the acid etch areas, and covered those areas with fresh stecil, followed by cutting the open areas for the frost step of glue chipping. For that one, we did the old method of pour, cut, peel.

Looking back, me might could have done the frost first, then open areas for the mica etching, knowing the frost etching doesn't beat up the stencil as much as when blasting wood. It would be a much more efficient way of handling the project.

Again, most of it depends on the size of the panel and the complexity of the design. Also, be forwarned that not all stencil will hold against the acid. Some will let the acid seep under the glue and ruin the piece. You'll need to do a couple of test to be sure before tackleing the project piece.

Good luck,
Mike Jackson
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

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Larry White
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Post by Larry White »

Hey, I'm doing one of these as we speak.

I like to place the mask for the acid etch (positive) on the glass, asphaltum the whole thing, then weed the vinyl out exposing the areas to apply the mica to. Do the etching and rinse. Then I register the sandblast mask over the whole thing (which covers over the acid etch areas), blast it, peel the mask, then flow in the glue in with the squeeze bottle method. So in essence, you can do both acid etching and glue chipping with one coat of asphaltum.

This sequence topic has been covered before and you might find some more useful information by doing a search on this site.

-LW
Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson »

Cam,
As Larry points out, there are several ways of doing this technique. About half of it is knowing what will work and what to watch out for. Of course, you can get part of that information by asking questions prior to trying a series of steps, but a lot of the knowledge is learned and retained by trying it on scraps.

We have also screened an asphaltum resist for the acid step. You could use that step as a first step for the underlayer for the sandblast mask for the glue chip. With a screen, you can do much more detailed work.

Image
Image

Mike
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
cam bortz
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am

Post by cam bortz »

I confess to being very much in the dark about acid and it's different applications. What I'm planning is to acid-etch centers of letters; I believe - correct me if I'm wrong - this is done with acid "paste" and mica. I don't think I'm up to submerging a whole piece in an acid bath anytime soon (if ever)!

Who/where are sources for acid? At this point I'm gathering recources as much as anything. Thanks again for the patient answers; I feel as though I'm about ten years behind on the learning curve.
Larry White
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Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:18 am

Post by Larry White »

Ya, stick with the acid/mica technique. This will yield a bright sparkly finish when solution or water gilded. Don't leave the mixture on any longer than the instructions say. You can pretty much figure it all out from Rick Glawson's instructions on the Letterhead site:

http://theletterheads.com/glawson/glawsonacidetch.html

The method described uses asphaltum as a mask. I've also had success using vinyl as the mask.

-LW
Larry White
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Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:18 am

Step-by-step

Post by Larry White »

In doing a search on this site, I found a step-by-step that I had put up on this board some time ago. Although it doesn't include any acid etching, it gives a pretty thorough rundown of the steps in creating a nice glass sign.

viewtopic.php?t=8&highlight=labelle

-LW
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