Welcome to The Hand Lettering Forum!
This is an interactive Bulletin Board on the topics of Sign making, design, fabrication, History, old Books and of coarse Letterheads, Keepers of the craft. The Hand Lettering Forum features links to resources, sign art history, techniques, and artists profiles. Learn more about Letterheads at https://theletterheads.com. Below you'll see Mchat has been added as a live communication portal for trial, and the Main forum Links are listed below.

Doug Bernhardt's Pub Photos

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

Moderators: Ron Percell, Mike Jackson, Danny Baronian

Mike Jackson
Site Admin
Posts: 1705
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:02 pm
Location: Jackson Hole, WY
Contact:

Doug Bernhardt's Pub Photos

Post by Mike Jackson »

Not long ago, Doug bought his Nikon D70 and 24-120 VR lense, then headed over the big pond. Tonight he sent a few images for me to try to post on theLetterheads.com site.

http://www.theletterheads.com/bernhardtpub/

You'll need Flash on your system to view them, but I suspect everyone already has that by now.

Maybe Doug can add to this post to tell us more about them.

Mike

PS...you can slide across the little pop up thumbnails, or use the row of arrows along the bottom to toggle through them. You can also use your right and left arrow keys...and even click one of them to begin an automated slide show.
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
Ron Berlier
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:27 am

Post by Ron Berlier »

Doug, very cool work - both subject matter and photos. Nice tease, now lets see the real good stuff. :D

Ron
Ron Berlier
Wherever I go, there I am.
Larry White
Posts: 1213
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:18 am

Post by Larry White »

Wow! ...now on that letter "A', now how did they get it thatta way?

Any ideas?

-LW
Doug Bernhardt
Posts: 1077
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:29 am
Location: Ottawa Canada
Contact:

Post by Doug Bernhardt »

Yea...WOW. The ancients were amazing weren't they. That Bass glass piece was buried deeply in a hallway of a remarkable old pub called the "Viaduct" near St.Paul's Cathedral. The whole pub was breathtaking and yet was far from the most amazing I saw. Spent a week alone just running the streets and if I was so moved,which was always, walked down any and every alleyway snooping and searching. Was joined for one day by Dave and Susie Butler and our great friend Dave Smith...Dave and Susie on their return from the Greece meet and Dave with a day to spend clowning with friends. All together I took almost 3 gigs of jpegs and there are a thousand photos to be adjusted and sifted through...and I admit there are just a few signs there too ;=) In a city like London there could be 10 lifetimes of this sort of wandering and just scratch the surface.
Kelly Thorson
Posts: 502
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:53 pm
Location: Penzance, SK Canada
Contact:

Post by Kelly Thorson »

Very nice - how old do you think it is? It is amazing to see the craftsmanship.

I remember staying at a hotel in London as a child and being fascinated with a beautiful mirror in the lobby. I'm not sure if it was actually beautiful or just in my child's mind. Seeing your pics brought the fleeting memory back, but I can't get a visual.

I'd love to see more, please keep posting them as you sort through them.
I believe there is no shame in failure. Rather, the shame lies in the loss of all the things that might have been, but for the fear of failure.
Dan Seese
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Contact:

Post by Dan Seese »

Doug,
I could go on looking at that "A" all day.
And I suppose all the letters and elements share the same level of depth and intricacy.
It's a heartbreaker to see that the piece is cracked in the upper left corner.
I reiterate Larry's question (although I suspect he knows something of the answer) "How did they get it thataway?"
Was it acid etched? Was it brilliant-cut? (that's a process I've never seen done and have difficulty envisioning) Was it a combination? And the different karats of gold and other details so delicately executed is truely astounding.
Thank you the inspiration.
Doug Bernhardt
Posts: 1077
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:29 am
Location: Ottawa Canada
Contact:

Post by Doug Bernhardt »

Hi again All.....That is an amazing glass piece and in fact I saw a few of that caliber in a similar state. It would have been installed arround 1890's by a company that was proud of the work and was a supplier to many pubs for brilliant cut and acid etched. There were several at the time that specialised in that work and the pub architects farmed everything out...mill work etc etc....much like today. My guess is there are several stages of acid work and the little dots you see in the same frame are punty's (sp?) cut on an oval wheel. We'll have to wait for Smitty to send in a reply for a more expert consultation. http://www.glass-and-sign.co.uk/ is an excellent site for a peek into the past.
Patrick Mackle
Posts: 478
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:21 am
Location: Monrovia, Ca.
Contact:

Post by Patrick Mackle »

What a great piece!! I've been reverse engineering the process.
First the glass was beveled. Then the brilliant cutting of punties, mitres and cresents, all cuts then appear to be polished using pumice and wooden wheels, these wheels were usually made of poplar because it is soft and fiberous and holds the water and pumice well.
Next all brilliant cuts and desired clear glass areas were covered with a thin lead foil. The glass was foiled in this way. First the glass was painted with a coat of Brunswick Black, an asphaltum based "embosser's black" to resist the acid. Next the dried black was rubbed with a wax bar made of a mixture of animal tallow and beeswax. The proportions of these two ingredients were shifted depending upon the warm or cool of the season making it harder or softer. The foil was burnished onto the waxy mixture to which it holds quit tightly. Next, in preparation of the white acid application all desired frosted areas were cut with a steel blade and peeled away revealing the black resist beneath. This black was removed with mineral spirits and clean cloths. After the white acid was rinsed and the glass dried, the areas desired to remain with white frost were artfully painted with the embossers black. Next the glass was subjected to a weakened mixture of HF and water to begin back polishing the original white frosted fields.
After the acid etching, the foil and black are removed and the glass throughly cleaned.
Now the gold is applied using varnish size for matt golds and water size for bright gold in the brilliant cuts. The gold is backed up and rubbed clean. A second black paint outline is added around the letters. Areas in the gold that are left ungilded will create the matt silver embellishments when the remaining glass is poured for silver mirror. Under silvering the white acid areas will become dark silver/gray and the acid back polished areas will become the bright silver matt tones.
Pat
Sarah King
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:43 pm
Location: Oak Park IL
Contact:

Post by Sarah King »

I'm sure you're right, Pat, but I thought that some of those fine lines might have been engraved with a copper wheel.
Sarah King
AngelGilding.com
Danny Baronian
Site Admin
Posts: 638
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:16 am
Contact:

Post by Danny Baronian »

Good call Pat. I thought some type of brilliant carving was involved in the textures within the letters too, but in talking with Dave Smith, his explanation was much the same as yours. The only carving in the A was the flower petals, the rest white acid in combination of various strengths of dilute HF to get the depth and tones.

Beautiful work.
Danny Baronian
Baronian Mfg.
CNC Routing & Fabrication
http://www.baronian.com
DAVE SMITH
Posts: 1213
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:12 am
Location: ENGLAND

Post by DAVE SMITH »

Beautiful piece! Pat explained it perfectly. Some nice acid work on this sign and love the way the gold is breaking down in the corners, would be cool to achieve that effect (the aged look) Also like the beveled glass letters on the bottom.
Doug really did a great job taking all these photo's some excellent reference on his cd's for this type of work.We had a great day out in London with the Butlers plenty of pubs to see but not enough time.
Here is a great looking acid etched glass sign for you to see ,another London Pub.

Dave.


Image


Image
DAVE SMITH
Posts: 1213
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:12 am
Location: ENGLAND

Post by DAVE SMITH »

The top photo is a glass piece I finished a few months ago for a client here in Torquay. The step-by-step on this sign is a tribute to Rick Glawson on how he went about making his building scenes in acid. It will hopefully appear in Sign Business in a few months time.


The Sign with Family Stores is one of 5 reverse glass signs in a Restaurant/pub in London . They are all 8ft by 5ft and sit in different areas of the Restaurant. The outer border section and most of the lettering outlines are acid etched ,there is no brilliant cutting on these pieces. The owner told me they were made in the late 1890's.

Incredible workmanship!
Patrick Mackle
Posts: 478
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:21 am
Location: Monrovia, Ca.
Contact:

Post by Patrick Mackle »

Sarah mentioned the possible use of copper wheel engraving on the pub mirror. Copper wheel engraving uses relatively small wheels of copper with different angles or radius shapes dressed onto the face of each wheel. The copper wheels are not abrasive by themselves and would have no effect on the glass. Therefore these copper wheels must be charged with a cutting/grinding agent which embeds itself into the soft copper. A supply of silicon carbide and oil act as the glass cutting agent. Traditional copper wheel cutting is usually found on fine crystal glassware or smaller pieces requiring extremely fine detailed engraving.
Brilliant cutting, as that seen in pub mirrors, bar backs and pub windows are executed on larger industrial stone wheel cutting machines. Generally on these machines each stone wheel has its own stone wheel and pully mounted on a steel shaft with tapered points ground at each end. The wheel is mounted into a large wood or metal frame. The tapered metal points of the stone wheel are held in perfect place by wooden blocks driven into place by wooden wedges. A long leather belt supplies turning power from a motorized shaft to the pully on the shaft beside the wheel. The stone wheels are used to cut the designs into the glass and wooden or cork wheels and pumice are used to polish out the cuts.
Of interest in the damaged pub mirror that Doug photographed are the applied letters "IN BOTTLE". It tells that the maker of that sign had sandblasting equipment to enable him to blast the letters out of plate glass.
The resulting blast tapered edges were then ground and polished creating nice demensional gilded glass letters. I wonder what they used as a bonding agent to affix them to the mirror, seems to have withheld the test of time!
Pat
Patrick Mackle
Posts: 478
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:21 am
Location: Monrovia, Ca.
Contact:

Post by Patrick Mackle »

In Dave's photo posted above, my eye went directly to the drop shadows on the word "FAMILY". They are of special interest as they are set in two directions, VERY special!!
I was just at the L.A. Getty Museum last week and viewed their collection of treasured illuminated manuscripts. The highly decorated letters in those mirrors are representative of those ornately gilded manuscript pages executed by ancient monks.
Pat
Jim Moser
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:36 pm
Location: Grass Valley, Ca.

Post by Jim Moser »

The word STORES also has the unusual two directional shadow. I duplicated a piece several years ago to replace the broken original (which I still have). I thought the shadow to be quite unusual at the time and had not seen anything like it until now. The BRANDY sign is part of a three piece set which is hanging in a local restaurant. (sorry, I can't figure out how to post a picture)
Life is much too important to be taken seriously
Doug Bernhardt
Posts: 1077
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:29 am
Location: Ottawa Canada
Contact:

Post by Doug Bernhardt »

A quick addition. The piece looks to be by the same craftsman as did the Old Blue Last and Victoria and a number of others we have seen...the Balmoral is another. Between Dave and I we should try and dig up a photo or two of that/those pieces. AND as always the work coming out of Smitty's shop is outstanding!
Mike Jackson
Site Admin
Posts: 1705
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:02 pm
Location: Jackson Hole, WY
Contact:

Post by Mike Jackson »

Image

Doug sent four more photos and I added them to the page. Check 'em out!
Mike Jackson
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
DAVE SMITH
Posts: 1213
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:12 am
Location: ENGLAND

Post by DAVE SMITH »

Good idea Bernhardt!
I will find some pub glass today and get it up here.
I have a few great windows from Truro in Cornwall for you all to see .(John Studdli the Cornishman country).
Dave
John Studden
Posts: 150
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:40 am

Post by John Studden »

The unusual shadow that Jim refers to is known as a Block & Shade, it represents a painted dimensional letter attached to a surface & casting it's own shadow. The Block shadow is usually painted with blended sides,
& the cast shadow slightly darker than the background it sits on.
This was typical of a lot of public house signage of the period. This technique is also used a lot in Fairground & Amusement parks in England.

These treatments are explained well in a little book called Victorian Sign Making (American Life Books) reprint of an 1871 original.

John
John Studden
Valencia Signs, California
Doug Bernhardt
Posts: 1077
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:29 am
Location: Ottawa Canada
Contact:

Post by Doug Bernhardt »

Studdley...an ISBN number from the reprint is in order here!!
Mike Jackson
Site Admin
Posts: 1705
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:02 pm
Location: Jackson Hole, WY
Contact:

Post by Mike Jackson »

Doug sent a few more photos last night and I added them to the original page.

http://www.theletterheads.com/bernhardtpub/

Mike
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
John Studden
Posts: 150
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:40 am

Post by John Studden »

Here you go Doug, the ISBN # 0-89257-055-5 lots of info on glass embossing also.........................John
John Studden
Valencia Signs, California
Mike Jackson
Site Admin
Posts: 1705
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:02 pm
Location: Jackson Hole, WY
Contact:

Post by Mike Jackson »

Image

This book has a few similar examples.

Image

I paid $29.99 for it a long time ago.
ISBN 1-85007-088-1

Try:
http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/Sea ... 70881&x=52

Mike
Last edited by Mike Jackson on Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
John Studden
Posts: 150
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:40 am

Post by John Studden »

The examples shown are OK but not technically correct as they show the shadow projected from the face of the letter, wheras it should be projected from where the supposed Dimentional letter contacts the surface it sits on, a common mistake and a faster , easier way to do it!
If you draw the same letter using the two treatments the look is a lot different. This procedure is explained a lot better in A.J. Lewery's
Signwritten Art, isbn 0-7153-9273-5. The cover even shows a more correct way. I hope you don't think I am being too picky but it is better to get it right............................especially on a real job. John
John Studden
Valencia Signs, California
Doug Bernhardt
Posts: 1077
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:29 am
Location: Ottawa Canada
Contact:

Post by Doug Bernhardt »

Looks like an amazing book...thanx for the peek goldie and have gone to a favourite bookseller (on line) with no results...is time to refine the search and thanx again Studdley....good tip.
Carol
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:50 am
Location: Oregon
Contact:

Sign Writing book

Post by Carol »

Doug, try www.abebooks.com. They have several copies. I already have a copy so I'm not being that generous with the information. abe is my favorite book seller for rare and out of print books.
cheers,
C.
Art is a technique of communication. The image is the most complete technique of all communication.
Claus Oldenburg
You are invited to visit www.carolchapel.com
Doug Bernhardt
Posts: 1077
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:29 am
Location: Ottawa Canada
Contact:

Post by Doug Bernhardt »

Carol...so howd you do that? That was the first place I went and plugged in the isbn number??? So sue me...I'm stupid!
Jesper Lind
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:48 pm

Post by Jesper Lind »

Heh, Doug

Great pics...when can we see more.
John Lennig
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 10:53 am
Location: Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada
Contact:

Post by John Lennig »

John S., re: the Victorian Sign Making, i've got the ISBN no. American Life Books(publisher?), is there an author? or how about when it was reprinted. Just more stuff for abebooks search...

thanks, John Lennig
"You spelled it wrong!"
Doug Bernhardt
Posts: 1077
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:29 am
Location: Ottawa Canada
Contact:

Post by Doug Bernhardt »

Hi Jesper and to all. Am in the process of learning how to upload all this to my web site rather than have ol' Mike here going through the process. It was my intent to just share some great photo's from the UK that you may never have the opportunity to see. It never occured to me to host a site of these as there are a couple of hundred altogether. Glad you enjoyed and like me, get inspiration from the old masters. When I work out the details etc I will post a link here.
Post Reply