A Gold "spinning" Issue

Billy Pickett · Post by **Billy Pickett** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:00 am

...When spinning and/or burnishing a surface gild (w. velvet), is it the gold itself that receives the (microscopic) abrasions or the semi dry varnish below it?

...If it is the latter, then is it better to do the burnishing while the size is still "fresh" and not totally hardened? Or if the former, better to spin later, say after a day or two when the size has totally dried?

...I've heard this subject bandied about at meets, but what is the definitive answer?

Bob Kaschak · Post by **Bob Kaschak** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:53 am

It's actually the gold being scratched (very fine scratches) that comes from the velvet.

Size should always be brushed on nice and thin. If the size is too thick, it will stay soft for a long time, and when it is "spun", it could smear with the gold.

So if the size was brushed on nice and thin, you could ususally spin the gold right away.

If in doubt, wait a day or two.

Good luck.

Peace out,
Bob

Post by **Mike Jackson** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:17 pm

While I am no expert on the subject, I'd agree with Bob. I think you can still spin gold long after a surface gild has dried and cured (assuming it had not be cleared over as people often do with fire trucks).

The old LeBlanc book showed him using a drill with a pad. I'd think that would be a problem if the size was the least bit uncured.

Mike

Jeff Lang · Post by **Jeff Lang** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:05 pm

I once did a surface gilded job with a directional burnish to give the appearance of dimensional or carved lettering. Following the article in SignCraft by Bruce Deveau.
(STEP BY STEP-PRISMATIC GOLD LEAF LETTERING Creating prismatic gold leaf lettering, by Bruce Deveau. Vol 56: pages 52-56)

I did the first side with great success & returned the next morning to finish the other side & found it did not react the same. I used 1 Shot quick size, & I suspect the size may have hardened more overnight resulting a much less dramatic burnish.
To test it more, I made a test panel of the first couple of letters & tried burnishing a couple of days later & it would barely take the directional burnish.
That gold leaf stuff is pretty thin, I'd bet it is a combination of the two, size & gold being altered or grooved to give the engine turned appearance.
Jeff

timiNC · Post by **timiNC** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:25 am

I have to agree with Jeff,...it seems that you can burnish the gold much easier when the size has just reached tack,and just after it has been gilded.Often as not it is next to impossible to achieve the same effects the next day with a 3 hr or quick size and achieve the same brilliance in the burnish. A point to consider is that any size should be totally tacked and very thin before gilding,...in order to eliminate the chance of breaking thru to wet size in an uncured area while engine turning .It doesn't pay to get in a hurry to gild if you intend to "spin" the gild.

cam bortz · Post by **cam bortz** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:38 am

I had gold leaf on a truck door for several years, and one day decided to spin it to change the look - the spinning did not show up at all, not even using a drill motor. I had gilded it with slow size and it was at least four or five years old. Since then I've noticed that spinning parts of the same job at different times will give an inconsistent appearance, so I make a rule to spin the whole job at once, usually right after gilding.

Post by **Mike Jackson** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:09 am

Well, I guess I stand corrected!!!!
I always thought surface gold leaf was still very fragile forever, especially against small scratches. This is a good topic with quite a bit of useful information for all of us.

Mike

Kent Smith · Post by **Kent Smith** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:25 pm

Gold size cures over time, obviously fast and quick sizes cure sooner than slow size. Although optimum gilds do not include drowning the size, the gold itself is bonded to the surface of the size, more thoroughly overtime. The optimum condition for burnishing is when the gold has a good cushion. As the size hardens under the gild it does not allow good and deeper scrtaches occur. Obviously, the varnish or oil size probably takes on some of the texture being burnished into the gold but the scratches in the gold are what produce the light refleciton differences desired. Whether the texture remains in the size or not, the reality has always been to burnish with optimum cushion. That time would always be as soon after gilding as possible with fast and quick size, within a few hours or days depending upon your curing experience with your favorite slow size. When using a drill for burnishing, the cure must have started so that even light pressure with not smear the size.