Any Silver spray guns for sale?

An interactive section of TheLetterheads.com

Topics include: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

Off Topic Posts may be deleted at the discretion of the web hosts. ABSOLUTELY NO SHARING OF COPYRIGHTED FONTS, CLIP ART, or VIDEOS!

Please take social chit-chat elsewhere!

Moderators: Danny Baronian, Mike Jackson

Roderick Treece
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:04 pm
Location: San deigo Calif
Contact:

Any Silver spray guns for sale?

Post by Roderick Treece » Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:11 pm

I am looking for a silver spray gun that might be for sale.For those of you who have used one ,At what point would you say it's worth it to have one.I am getting tired of pouring it on but what kind of quantities of solutions make it worth have a gun and mixing up all the solutions?
Thanks Roderick

Patrick Mackle
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:21 am
Location: Monrovia, Ca.
Contact:

Post by Patrick Mackle » Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:22 am

Hi Roderick,
Just read your post today. Yesterday, in anticipation of getting back to silvering, I dragged out my old Paasche silvering gun to see how it had faired having settled under 20+ years of dust under a bench. It was last used to mirror Rawson & Evans style glue chipped and beveled mirrors that I installed in the Riverside Casino theatre barback in Laughlin Nevada. I had purchased it in questionable condition from an old glass and mirror man in Stanton, California. His name was Jim Tweddell (Tweddell's Glass & Mirror, now TBM in Santa Ana Ca.) and he knew alot about beveling, silvering and wheel cutting. I asked him to teach me wheel cutting, but he refused, saying that the last trainee went off and became competition, later I met this man, his name was Dave Davenport in Newport Beach, Ca. Dave was later to travel to Rich Samsel's cutting studio in Santa Cruz, Ca. where he said he experienced what it was like to wheel cut glass with diamond wheels. He was impressed with the diamond wheels ease and speed.
After I bought that old Paasche from Jim, I called Paasche Airbrush Co. with the model number for parts. They claimed that it must be a very old gun because they had no record of that model number. They even questioned if it was one of their guns. I told them that the grip was embossed with the Paasche logo, so they sent some new needles and packing and I was able to rebuild the gun.
I prefer to spray over pouring the silver solutions. One reason is that the silvering chemicals are seperated and only mix as they meet in the fan of air, as opposed to mixing them together in a pitcher where you must judge the correct volume or risk too little or too much (wa$te). I can remember Rick Glawson scrambling to mix more silver to cover a little more area.
It seems to me that when I've seen silver poured, it kicks off and deposits with uneven colors of creamy yellow to dark charcoal streaks. I'm sure the old silvering men knew how to do it best, I was told first hand that they used canvas covered, concrete tables containing steam heated pipes. These heated tables probably allowed them to add a weaker precipitant solution "the kicker" when mixing the silver for pouring, allowing the silver to form slowly and more evenly.
I hope you can find a deal on a silvering gun but you may be able to get by until you do. I've seen automated silvering lines and it seems to me that you could buy two of the cheapest auto touch up style spray guns and attach them side by side to spray the silver solution. Let's compare silvering experiences, cleanliness is very important.
I'm looking forward to making some R&E style beveled, chipped, gilded, and silvered bent glass signs.
Best wishes,
Pat

Sarah King
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:43 pm
Location: Oak Park IL
Contact:

Post by Sarah King » Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:08 am

Pat,

We (my husband, the chemist, and I) have been doing experiments exactly along the lines you suggest. The big silver mirror guys these days all assume that the silver will be sprayed on the glass and so they make the solutions with a very fast reducer which makes it very difficult to get an even deposition by pouring. Spraying is good if you have the equipment and know how to do it - and how to get a balanced output from your guns -but we wanted to see if we could revive the pouring process as it was meant to be.

So I am very pleased to announce that just this last week we finalized a new pouring silver formula that is slower (deposits in 5 minutes instead of instantly) and goes down the way you want it to go down - nice and easy. The process hasn't changed but the reducer is not as fast - and the finish coat is a little thicker. And, no, our formula is not British in origin - it's our own brand.

Pourin' silver, like sippin' whiskey, is meant to be enjoyed. No big rush - no swirls to show where it hit the glass - just a smooth even coat. And no brown spots if you use the right concetration of tin.

So "Rawson and Evans style" Pourin' Silver is back. Now we just need to get it up on our web site.
Sarah King
AngelGilding.com

Sarah King
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:43 pm
Location: Oak Park IL
Contact:

Post by Sarah King » Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:19 am

Sorry, I wanted to add about the heated tables. They were very common in Rawson and Evans day, but the formula for "hot silver" is very different from the formula for cold pouring silver. There is not only no need to build a big steam heated table for hand poured silver but you get bad results if you do. To get good results you need to suit the formula to the method. Formulas and methods are not randomly interchangable. Cold pouring silver works best in a warm room - about 70 degrees or so - but it does not work well on a steam table. Skill comes from practice - not fancy equipment. I tried a steam table and it was not money well spent.
Sarah King
AngelGilding.com

Roderick Treece
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:04 pm
Location: San deigo Calif
Contact:

Post by Roderick Treece » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:05 pm

Thanks to all.I now have a silver spray gun.
.
One interesting thing is that the mixing ratios are deferrent for sparying than for pouring.
For pouring it's equal parts silver,reducer,activator.
For sparying it's 3oz silver ,3 oz activator to 1 gal dist.h2o then 3 oz reducer to 1 gal. h2o.Seemed to weak for the reducer but I called peacock and they confirmed it.Also old notes from Rick Glawson had the same formula???
Roderick

Patrick Mackle
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:21 am
Location: Monrovia, Ca.
Contact:

Post by Patrick Mackle » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:47 pm

Seeing as how this is a silvering gun, the most MAGICAL gun in the world, and could easily bring you extra income, you have to ask yourself, did he silver one mirror or maybe two?

I gotsta know, with all the excitement... did you buy a new gun, or
a used gun, or were ya just lucky... punk?

Pat

Roderick Treece
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:04 pm
Location: San deigo Calif
Contact:

Post by Roderick Treece » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:56 pm

Pat,
I didn fact git a gun.Used as it were from an old gun slinger name a Oregon Frank.It was a bit more than two bit is all I can tell ya.The piece I'm working on was small enough that I just went a head and poured it.When I get my next big mirroring order it will be a releif not to have to mix and pour .The last job was 40 pains of glass what a pain.

"Now you gotta promise you'll never say nothin to nobody"

Darryl Gomes
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:04 pm
Location: Underwood, Ontario Canada

Post by Darryl Gomes » Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:42 am

When I used to silver larger pieces of glass, I used a couple of spray bottles. It has been a few years, but I seem to remember mixing the silver and reducer together in one bottle and the activator in the other. Spray with equal pumps at the same time from each hand on to the glass. It works really well.
I also remember that we had to adjust our ratios because we had 2 parts in one bottle and 1 part in the other, or remember 2 sprays with silver/reducer and 1 spray activator.

Darryl
Darryl Gomes
Underwood Ontario

Roderick Treece
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:04 pm
Location: San deigo Calif
Contact:

Post by Roderick Treece » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:41 pm

Well I'm looking for another silver spray gun if anybody's got one to sell.I'm thinking it would be good to have a back-up in case my original one ( I nick named it Frankie) has a probelm.

Thanks
Roderick
www.customglasssigns.com

Patrick Mackle
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:21 am
Location: Monrovia, Ca.
Contact:

Post by Patrick Mackle » Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:08 pm

Rod,
If you find a second gun you should name it Johnnie! Frankie and Johnnie!
In the meantime it is always good to stock a rebuild kit. Taking your gun apart if you have never done it yet, is a really good way to know how it works and can
give you great knowledge on how to adjust it to the optimum.
Pat

Roderick Treece
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:04 pm
Location: San deigo Calif
Contact:

Post by Roderick Treece » Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:35 pm

Pat,
"Seeing as how this is a silvering gun, the most MAGICAL gun in the world, and could easily bring you extra income, you have to ask yourself, did he silver one mirror or maybe two?
Well the answer is hundreds!
I never thought to take the darn thing apart.You mensioned adjustment,I have been adjusting the flow by looking at the botttles.When I see one looks a little lower that the other I adjust one for more or less flow.
If and when I get another one I'm gonna name it Peggy after this nice girl I know.
RT

Robare M. Novou
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 11:18 am
Location: Milwaukee
Contact:

Post by Robare M. Novou » Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:07 pm

Having done some silvering via both the pour method and the spray bottle method, I prefer the spray bottle method.

I also do not use the 3 part Peacock silver solutions.

I now use Mirror Tech 2 part silvering solutions.

When doing the pouring method, I too got bad results on larger pieces, with discoloration and alot of streaking.

It seems that one of the benifits of using two seperate spray bottles is being able to spray on a layer of silver solution first and then spraying on the activator. It was explained to me that when you intially start to silver your glass with both solutions at the same time, some of the unmixed activator solution contacts the tinned surface first, causing the tinned glass to darken and/or streak. This is whats know as "burning" the tin layer.

By coating the tinned glass with a sufficent amount of silver solution, you avoid having the activator solution get past the silver and contact the tinned glass first. I also use this split/step method when using the gold solutions.

After the initial silver first, activator second, I then begin to spray both solutions at the same time, with no worry about burning the tin. I go up and down and back and forth on the back side of the glass until I can no longer see through the silvering. On some pieces there have been stubborn areas that took a little longer to silver. And I did have to pause a few times per piece to allow the reaction to take place. But no streaking or Black specs.

Also, the back of the silvered glass was just as reflective as the front side, with no milky brown residue.

When silvering via the spray bottle method, I lay the glass down and level it, prior to the silvering process.

I'm assuming that a silver spray gun setup will mix and atomize the solutions much better than spray bottles.
And that you can stand the glass upright. I have not stood up any pieces in the vertical position. I have sprayed mixed silver solutions onto vertical job site/storefront windows, with good results.

Overspray and fumes caused by the spray bottles are handled by an exhaust fan, and the wearing of a paint respirator, along with other protective body coverings.

Someday, in the near future, I may invest in a silvering gun, it would be nice to try it and see how it does verses the spray bottle method. I had almost given up on silvering mirrors, until I was shown the spray bottle technique.

And if you are silvering a million pieces of glass, you should get yourself a silvering conveyor belt system. Now that would be sweet!

Before one invests the $600 plus for the silvering gun, give the cheap spray bottles a chance first, you may never think about a silvering spray gun again.

Also, dont forget to get some mirror back up paint, it works greaaaaat!

RMN

Roderick Treece
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:04 pm
Location: San deigo Calif
Contact:

Post by Roderick Treece » Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:23 pm

Good morning Robare,
O.K. Now I know one of you out there has gun their not useing!Give it up.

Your two spray bottle teqnic sounds good.I never liked pouring,it was the mixing that I disliked.But now that I spray I will never go back.It takes me about 10 minutes to get set up to spray and I have noticed that I use alot less ABC mix than when I poured.
Spraying does not elimnate the weird things that happen from time to time but I've learned to accept them when they happen.
You can spray horizontal or vertical.Most of the mirrors I do are antiqued so I do those laying down.

PS I am still going to send you money for the RE book at some point.

Roderick

DAVE SMITH
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:12 am
Location: ENGLAND

Silver pouring

Post by DAVE SMITH » Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:14 pm

I was taught by a mirror maker how to make the solutions from raw chemicals and pour them. I personally never get a problem with pouring, cleaning is the biggest factor.
I make the batch of silver fresh everytime with new solutions of distilled water in each bottle, same goes for Stannous Chloride (white crystals). fresh everytime
By slowing the silver down I just add more water to my mix,seems to work excellent with a nice silver mirror finish and good addesion, I can change the deposit time with tempratue also ,silvering likes warmth just like Angel gilding. Only recently I found by adding more stannous chloride 0.8 grms I am getting optimum addesion of the coat of silver ,when dry I test it with strong tape by applying it to the coat of silver and then pulling it off, I find that the tape will not pull any silver from the glass. Between 0.5 grms and 1grm of tin crystals you will get good hard mirrors anything over that like stated in Shweigs book it can get unstable 0.8 is a good formula to stay with. This works well for silvering over vinyl and then pulling off the vinyl which leaves perfect crisp edges, rather than when the stannous chloride is weaker which gives you good mirrors but jagged edges into where your glowline edge would of been. If there ever is bad defects in mirror processing it usually stems from inpure distilled water or chemicals that have untightened screw tops. Stuart Norton has a great set up for spray silvering, he recently moved to bigger premises where he is now setting up new facilities for silvering .His old system was a good set up and seemed to work very good. I guess I will stick with pouring as I have been used to it and it works fine for me.
Sarah's new formula sounds very interesting especially if it gives you a thickercoat first time round. Good luck with that Sarah!
Dave

Roderick Treece
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:04 pm
Location: San deigo Calif
Contact:

Post by Roderick Treece » Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:34 pm

Dave,
In the past I alway purchased my tin solution premixed.I did try once to mix my own without success.If you don't mind saying what is your formula for tin?

Roderick

DAVE SMITH
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:12 am
Location: ENGLAND

tin

Post by DAVE SMITH » Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:45 pm

My formula now Roderick is 0.8grms stannous Chloride to 1000ml of deionised water lasts for a couple of hours which is all you need.
Dave

Roderick Treece
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:04 pm
Location: San deigo Calif
Contact:

Post by Roderick Treece » Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:12 pm

Dave,
Thank you.I noticed that the commercial premade tin consintrate I buy has a foamy quality to it.When i mixed up my own version last time it didn't have that quality to it.I was told it was a wetting agent.Yours doesn't seem to have it,is that right?
Roderick

DAVE SMITH
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:12 am
Location: ENGLAND

tin

Post by DAVE SMITH » Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:13 am

The tin I buy here Roderick is white crystals and when mixed it appears a slight milky blue colour but thats all.
Never seen the foamy stuff before, Watch you don't get rabbies!
Dave

Patrick Mackle
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:21 am
Location: Monrovia, Ca.
Contact:

Post by Patrick Mackle » Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:25 pm

Roderick wrote:Dave,
Thank you.I noticed that the commercial premade tin consintrate I buy has a foamy quality to it.When i mixed up my own version last time it didn't have that quality to it.I was told it was a wetting agent.Yours doesn't seem to have it,is that right?
Roderick
Wetting agents (surfactants) will foam if you shake them, and yet left unshaken lower the surface tension of bubbles causing them to break and smooth out- go figure!!
In my early experimenting with silvering I found that adding a wetting agent greatly benefitted the spraying of silver. It also seemed to soften the water allowing the silver metal to deposit on to the glass quicker and much more evenly.
Pat

Roderick Treece
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:04 pm
Location: San deigo Calif
Contact:

Post by Roderick Treece » Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:38 pm

Now you've got me foaming at the mouth wondering what that wetting agent is.What would the ratio be?Out of all the chemicals I use the premixed tin go's bad the most.It would be great to be able to make my own.

When we get together in the near future let's try to spend at least one/two day's down at my shop just doing some mirror experiments.

Roderick

Danny Baronian
Site Admin
Posts: 623
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:16 am
Contact:

Post by Danny Baronian » Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:13 pm

Rick occasionally used liquid soap as a wetting agent. I use Photo Flo made by Kodak. A drop or two of Photo Flo was added to 16-32 ozs. of water. It aides in water evaporation on the film without leaving any water marks. Both serve the same purpose, but Photo Flo is most likely a purer product, made specifically as a wetting agent.

Photo Flo is available at any good photo supply shop.

Danny
Danny Baronian
Baronian Mfg.
CNC Routing & Fabrication
http://www.baronian.com

Doug Bernhardt
Posts: 1025
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:29 am
Location: Ottawa Canada
Contact:

Post by Doug Bernhardt » Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:59 pm

Well...this HAS been interesting. Danny, I never actually watched the "Boss" mix his his silvering gear but he also used photoflow over damar centres...wouldn't surprise me if also used in this process. Next time I mix up some crystals and also a sample of the liquids I'll give 'em a shake to see what happens. Also...I've seen Mr.Daves mirrors up close and found it hard to believe they weren't sprayed. I've NEVER had that kind of success and I might have to kill him when we next meet!

Roderick Treece
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:04 pm
Location: San deigo Calif
Contact:

Post by Roderick Treece » Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:37 pm

I am in need of another silver spray gun if any body has one for sale.

Thanks
Roderick

DAVE SMITH
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:12 am
Location: ENGLAND

Post by DAVE SMITH » Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:56 pm

Stick to the pouring you can't go wrong Roderick! No waste and clean results everytime mate. Sorry can't help you with the guns...
Dave

Roderick Treece
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:04 pm
Location: San deigo Calif
Contact:

Post by Roderick Treece » Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:46 pm

Dave,
I do pour when I have a few to do but I have so much volunm that it is much faster to spray.

Roderick

Kent Smith
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:41 pm
Location: Estes Park, CO
Contact:

Post by Kent Smith » Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:10 pm

try angelgilding.com

Roderick Treece
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:04 pm
Location: San deigo Calif
Contact:

Post by Roderick Treece » Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:23 pm

Kent,
Sara doesn't sell silver spray guns,At this time they don't even sell a spray formula for silver.The only place I have found to buy a new gun is Paasche.I was hoping someone would dig their old one out of the closet and sell it.The new ones are pricey.But it may come to that.

http://www.paascheairbrush.com/cgi-bin/ ... Spray+Guns

Roderick

Kent Smith
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:41 pm
Location: Estes Park, CO
Contact:

Post by Kent Smith » Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:08 pm

I figured Sara might know of an alternate source for you. I have both a Paasche and an old DeVilbuss that was Dad's, neither for sale though. The reality is that it is a small community for these guns and networking may be the only way to find something other than at new price. I still have better results pouring than spraying and have rarely done enough to justify spray.

Mike Jackson
Site Admin
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:02 pm
Location: Jackson Hole, WY
Contact:

Post by Mike Jackson » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:10 am

Roderick,
I have a gun I could sell. How much are you offering?

Mike Jackson
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons

Patrick Mackle
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:21 am
Location: Monrovia, Ca.
Contact:

Post by Patrick Mackle » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:36 pm

Hey Rod,
If I was going to spray BIG mirrors, I would go to Harbor Freight and buy two HVLP paint guns with plastic cups. (Or plumb in plastic tubing for your chem vessels)
I would fabricate an adjustable (spray fan angles in and out) aluminum bar to hold them side by side and link the air inputs to work off a single trigger.
This would be cheap, and give you much more adjustments than a regular silvering gun.
Pat

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests