Extira? Any body heard of it

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Roderick Treece
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Extira? Any body heard of it

Post by Roderick Treece » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:20 pm

I had a designer call out a material ( Extira) for a cutout hanging blade sign.I found it on googles but it doesn't give any info regarding cutting it out and hanging it up without a frame to keep it from warping.What is everybody else useing out there.

Thanks Roderick

Doug Bernhardt
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Post by Doug Bernhardt » Thu Jul 29, 2004 9:00 pm

Hi Roderick...have heard of it and have used it. The support sheets (product info) seemed good to me and have followed them to a "T"...sure was easy to use. Time will tell just how good it is but my "spidey senses" tell me it's good!

Roderick Treece
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Post by Roderick Treece » Fri Jul 30, 2004 1:25 pm

Do you think it would stay flat and not warp with out a frame?

Roderick

Doug Bernhardt
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Post by Doug Bernhardt » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:40 pm

Hi Roderick,
I think for a blade sign it would be fine. I might be concerned if it was an 8'x8' blade sign as it is also incredibly heavy. Would also go for 3/4 inch. Does this require dimensional elements....that is the only real value above overlayed plywood.....and besides, the jury is still out on how long it will last outside. Have a piece I intended to test in this way. Cut and weigh a piece....sink it in a pail of water and then remove after so many days and weigh again...then repeat the process. Also it is very hard on tools. Went through 3 jigsaw blades cutting a dozen or so letters.

Robare M. Novou
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Extira

Post by Robare M. Novou » Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:36 pm

I've been working on an article for signcraft magazine concerning the use of extira for signs. As we know, medex was great to cut shapes out of, no voids or delamination, but it didnot last outside when exposed to moisture, unlike the spec sheet that said it was exteroir grade and good for outside signs. Blooming of the material was a big issue....so now comes extira with the same claims. I stuck a piece in some water for a day...no swelling, not sure on the absorbtion, as I did not weigh it, I'll have to look into that.

Anyway it cuts nice like medex, and yeah, its heavy! especially the 3/4" boards.

One thing that I can pass on with confidence is that you should not use water based primer on this material, as the primer dries way to fast to be absorbed into the extira. Always use an oil based primer with a long dry time. I forgot this rule while making the switch to water based latex and acrylic paints and primers here in the shop. Anyway... a Latex finish coat was applied one side of the waterbased primed extira board and left to dry. The next day I turned it over and applied the Latex finish coat to the backs. I let this dry, and on the following day I picked up these boards off the rack, only to have some of the finish paint stick to the racks. What I noticed is that the paint came off right down to the surface of the extira, and then it hit me, the lesson I had learned(and forgotten) so long ago with medex...DO NOT USE WATERBASED PRIMER ON THESE SUBSTRATES.

Also, Ive notice that this material stays dusty even after its blown off. I have taken a damp sponge and wiped off a considerable amount of dust residue that might interfere with primer addhesion.

Warping....I dont see this product warping, but to be on the safe side always coat out both surfaces to equalize the surface tension.
I remember not finishcoating the back of a signfoam sign...the spec sheet says no warping....but let me tell ya, in the sun its a different story, Signfoam turns into banana, film at 11:00.

RMN

joe crumley
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Post by joe crumley » Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:29 pm

I agree witht he posts on Extira.

My first impression, aside from weight, was how fuzzy the surface was, unlike Medex which was very smooth. Too bad it puffed up like a toad when exposed to a sprinkler over time.

We put Extira on our CNC and it cuts nicely but the dust is like "floor sweep". The residue sure is nice for cleaning the floor.

Surfacing: Because it so fiberous, we dicided to use Epoxy as a sealer. That worked well but we also used fiberlas resin. The resin as it penetrated deeply and dried fast. Finishing was done in out standard way.
Time will tell. I cut, sealed, and painted a couple of pieces and threw them on the top of our shop for future reference.

After a few initial tests I have decided to move away from it. Back to Medex. We also had some real disasters with it, but may try it again, only this time to seal off with resin.

Let me mention we do quiet a bit of V Carving a CNC. For this reason we are interested in flat sheet products like Extira.

j

joe crumley
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Post by joe crumley » Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:57 am

Further Tests:

I am finishing a panel 18"X62"X3/4" for a Legal Firm. This panel will be Tap Con'd to brick exterior.

Still finding my way through with this product and thought I would share my findings.

Because Extira is so soft, it was necessary to top coat it in order to maintain a chrisp cut. The letters and desgin were routed with a v-bit on our CNC.

We rolled on two coats of Shellac which dries very fast, about ten minutes, and provided a good base for Fiberglass Resin. I have been changing back and forth between epoxy and resin. To date I like the resin best because it is thinner and a bit more manageable. Dry time is a couple of hours and I can get it delivered from the local auto paint store.

Finishing with acrylic latex, Liquitex artist colors, and asphaltum.

I wouldn't be surprized if Extira doesn't become more dense with a few years exposure to the sun outdoors. I really like it so far for it's machining qualities, and ease of finishing.

Extira wont replace HDU, MDO, but sure looks good for carved wall panels. We pay $41.50 a sheet.

Hope my findings are of assistance to someone.

J.

Roderick Treece
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Post by Roderick Treece » Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:34 pm

Thanks for all the feed back.As it turns out the job didn't happen but I like all the info.I am a little concerned with the last post regarding coating first with shellack then resin.I hope that works for you .I would be worried about changing materials like that.You could do a first wash with thin resin.
In the last few years I've been pre coating all my exerior hanging mdo signs with a "wash' of G 2 epoxy. 3/4 acetone 1/4 epoxy mix with great results.Then priming with "Evercoat" high speed polyester primer.

Roderick

joe crumley
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Post by joe crumley » Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:55 pm

R.

I like the process you use with a wash made from Epoxy. Not sure about your mixture, but I know it will work.

The use of shellac is a tried and proven base sealer. primer. It's the base for Kils. We've used it for years.

Extira has very little resistance against warping. I would caution: This material must be sealed both sides the best you can. It likes to warp.

j

Roderick Treece
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Post by Roderick Treece » Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:52 pm

Hi Joe,

My basic formula for a epoxy wash is to mix the epoxy first a and b ,Then cut it with acetone by enough to make it a wash so it really can absorb into the substrate. maybe 60 % solvent.Useing the G2 epoxy it takes a while to kick but it will be ready to sand in about a day, maybe day and a half.I like the G2 because it's marine oriented.
If your top coating with resin you could do the same wash with resin just make sure you catalize it first.The probelm I have with resin is that it doesn't have much structual value with out fiberglass so thats why I like the epoxy and the evercoat primer.

Roderick

joe crumley
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Post by joe crumley » Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:59 pm

R.

Thanks for the epoxy information. Although we use it as a glue, this a new technique for us.

I have found that epoxy mixed with saw dust from our orbital increases it's stregnth. When mixed to a light paste, it is a great gap filler also.

Thanks again.

Joe

Roderick Treece
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Post by Roderick Treece » Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:44 pm

Joe, Thanks for the tip regarding the saw dust.
Roderick

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