Water gild over shellac?

Larry White · Post by **Larry White** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:11 pm

Many times when I have a question, I do another test piece, but time is of the escence on this one. I know I can water gild over varnish, but does anyone know if you can water gild over shellac with basically the same result as varnish?

Thanks, Larry

Post by **Mike Jackson** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:51 pm

Larry, I have never water gilded over shellac, but at least on the surface I'd say it should work. Of course, some shellac has a tendency to yellow and it might have some longevity problems if facing a hot sun. Normally, everyone would suggest doing a test piece, but your post indicates that isn't really an option. You probably already know to add a drop or two of liquid soap to keep the water size from wanting to crawl off the varnish or shellac. Let us know how it goes!

Maybe someone else will have some specific previous experience with shellac under a water gild and hopefully they will post their findings.

Mike Jackson

Doug Bernhardt · Post by **Doug Bernhardt** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:58 pm

Agree with Mike with the slight exception of "photo-flow" instead of soap. Am sure it will work well but in the past I have had cloudy results from time to time....with photo-flow, never a hitch!

Chris Lovelady · Post by **Chris Lovelady** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:19 am

I have heard of photo flow but were do you get it. what is it's primary use?

Lovelady

Post by **Danny Baronian** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:23 pm

Photo-flo came up under another discussion recently. It's original intent as Rick would say - to make water wetter.
Photo flo is a surfactant - a product that aids in the dispersion of water from a surface. The surface Photo Flo deals
with is photographic film. In practice liquid soap can be used in it's place, but it will not work, or is as pure as photo flo.

As far as purchase, any well stocked photo supply store will stock it, but chemicals are rarely on the shelves anymore
due to digital photography. An online search would produce a supplier. The smallest bottle they make is in the area of 8-16 ozs
which would last most a lifetime.

A comment came up regarding additives in silvering solutions, and the foaming that occurred. Reading the information from
Kodak may help to explain where that comes from, and how to avoid it:

KODAK PHOTO-FLO 200 Solution

Description

Concentrated wetting agent used as a final step in processing to inhibit the formation
of water spots or streaks on films and plates.
Also used as a surfactant to aid in the smooth application of water-based retouching
materials to processed films, plates and papers, both black-and-white and color.

Concentration of working solutions may need to be varied to suit specific requirements
for use, or local water quality. If tap water is very hard or contains high levels of dissolved solids,
mixing PHOTO-FLO Solutions with filtered, de-ionized, or even distilled water is suggested.

PHOTO-FLO Solutions mixed with warm or hot water may develop a layer of foam as microscopic air
bubbles are released from the water as it cools. Either let warm water stand to clear the suspended
air before mixing, or strip the foam from the surface of the mixed solution with a clean squeegee or similar tool after mixing.

Avoid shaking or aggressively mixing either the concentrate or working solution, because the bubbles formed are not readily dissipated.

John Studden · Post by **John Studden** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:28 pm

The cloudiness is probably caused by too much "soap", the only one that seems to work well is IVORY washing up liquid, a couple of drops per pint is enough, I have used this for years over varnish centers, it should work equally well over Shellac. If you want a cloudy effect to match older work just add more...............