Measuring "standards"?

[Mike Jackson]

If I handed you a tape measure and told you to go measure the opening dimensions of a window, which measurement would you take first?
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If you were to tell the person taking your mini blind order you had 59.5" long blinds, would you consider that to be the width of the window?
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If someone told you they wanted a 4x8 sign, would you ask them if they wanted it in the horizontal (landscape) format, or vertical (portrait) format? Same question if they told you they wanted an 18" x 24" sign?

Is it "standard" to say the smaller dimension first, regardless of whether it is vertical or horizontal? 4x8 8x10 16x20 30x40?

I bring this up today because I measured my windows a few weeks ago and told the person taking the order my window opening was 59.5" in 47.5". I measured the width first and wrote that down. Then measured the height and wrote that down. I might even have told him the blinds needed to be 59.5" long. But really, they use the term "long" for height and the length is the width of the opening. Clear as mud?

Not too long ago, a person ordered a couple of 4x8 signs. We agreed on the price and I emailed over a proof of the sign. They wrote back and told me they wanted it 8 ft tall and 4 ft wide. WE always ASSUME people wanting 4x8 signs want a landscape format unless they tell us. I usually ask up front just to be sure, but I didn't this time. Luckily, it was just a computer layout and not a big problem to design again. Of course, I ate the time as a result of me not asking up front.

Going back to the blinds, wouldn't you think the salesman would ask me which measurement was the width? They do this all the time, but when dealing with the mass public (me) and not a trained interior decorator or contractor, you'd think it would be in their best interest to ask just to be sure. They are re-ordering the blinds, and I believe they are going to eat the expense, but I could tell the salesman was frustrated by the whole thing.

Comments?
Mike Jackson

[Larry White]

Over here in the glass world, the standard is always written, Width x Height.

If a piece of glass is out of square, or has some feature that requires the work to be on a specific side, I ALWAYS require a drawn diagram indicating the side of the glass to be worked on. There was a point when I would accept a verbal instruction, but that was $1,000 ago. If I'm unsure, I will draw it up as I believe it to be, FAX it over, have the customer sign it off and FAX it back.

If dealing with the GP (general public), I ensure that I understand exactly what they mean and want.

I would think the blind company would have an order form with a drawing that they would plug the dimensions into, and have the customer sign it off as to being exactly what they want. Seems it would be a document that would prove where any mistake would lie. SWM.

[Danny Baronian]

Very interesting question!

I recently completed a job that required some picture frames - 12 - 1" thick, 36" wide by 36" high. Called a frame shop and specified the dimensions as 1" thick, 36" wide by 36" tall; the width of the face frame (moulding) is 1 3/4. They insisted on the OOD, which I'd never heard of before - the outside opening dimension, which for the width would be 32.5 inches - 36" minus 2 times the width of the moulding of 1 3/4". So 36 minus 3.5= 32.5 OOD. Don't know if any other industry using the term OOD.

I can see their logic for asking for the OOD. Regardless of the moulding chosen, the OOD is a given, and a standard for them.

I've always used what's considered the standard in wood dimension: T x W x L: thickness x width x length, which is also the basis for determining board feet.

But... the standards I've always considered 'standard' seems to be out the window, and you have to check yourself with your terminology with everyone you deal with.

Purchase lumber - either solids or sheet goods and it's always the same - a 2 x 4 specifies the thickness by the width, and logically the length follows, sheet goods - plywood, sintra, HDU T x W X L.

Had the same problem with blinds years ago and had to fight to get the right ones - even though they had my drawing of the window with dimensions clearly listed.... and attached to the order.

As for Larry's comment, another good point: use the fax! The incentive to receive a hard copy to provide a quote is a good one.

Hoping you get your windows covered before Christmas!

As for you... and everyone else, have a safe.... and Merry Christmas!

Danny

[Larry White]

Another standard that I use is verbage indicating the desired sandblast texture. I define them as; Extra-Fine, Fine (or Standard), Medium, and Coarse.

I'm constantly getting requests for "light" or "heavy" sandblast. I usually have to call the customer to find out what they mean.

[Wayne Osborne]

Interesting!- Here in the uk we talk of 8x4's- and 10x 5's ect. ( the phrase to remind us in schools was " In the house and up the stairs".)

However- after too many years of reading signcraft..I catch myself talking to clients about 4x8's

[Dan Seese]

I recently ordered some Pella replacement windows. They told me that the standard for referring to window dimensions is always width by height (confiming Larry's point.)
Possibly your salesperson was frustrated because he saw his ccmmission going out the window.
It's snowing today. Gotta get those new windows installed!

[Raymond Chapman]

Mr. Jackson....is it snowing where you are? Sounds like a bad case of cabin fever to me.

[Mike Jackson]

Hi Raymond,
Funny you should ask. A few days ago, I looked at my little thermometer outside the front window and saw it was only 32°, so I took the dog for a walk. I thought it felt colder the entire walk, but then attributed it to the slight breeze. The next day it was 32°, but I didn't go out for the walk. The next day it was darned cold and the thermometer still said 32°, though the TV weather channel was saying we were closer to 5°. I told Darla my thermometer was broken. She knew I'd go buy one, so she went into the Christmas presents and gave me the one she was going to give me for Christmas. This one is electronic with an outside unit that sends information back to the unit inside. Pretty cool! This morning it said -1°.

I asked Darla the question about measuring the window. She said she would probably walk up to the window and measure the height first, then the width. Hmmmmm.

I have been buying some picture frames for some of the photos, and they are all sold as 8x10, 11x14, 18x24, and so forth, regardless of whether you hang it horizontal or vertical. When I go into the lumber yard, I tell them I want a 2x4 or a 4x8 sheet of plywood. It just seems there is a pattern of calling out the smaller measurement first no matter how it will eventually be used. That makes me thing WE must ask the client if they want a horizontal 4x8 or a vertical 4x8, and it also makes me think anyone selling blinds or windows would be in the habit of double checking at the time of the sale.

I suspect that salesman will ask from now on, too, but he has been selling blinds there for years. We bought some from him six or seven years ago.

Yes, I do probably have a bit of cabin fever with the short days and frigid cold. We have a little snow, but I'd rather have that than all the ice storms they were having back in the mid-south.

Mike

[Bruce Horton]

Well Mike, now that you're all electronic with that new Weather Channel calibrated thermometer, maybe you can answer that nagging question we've always had.
If it's zero degrees in Loveland, Colorado and twice as cold in Jackson , Wyoming...how cold is it in Jackson, Wyoming?

hmmmmmm.

Cold and dry enough to make my glue chip a little better, I always answer.

...Bruce

[Kent Smith]

At least we finally have a temperature at this time of day...4 degrees.

As to measuring, I have always thought in the landscape format for wood and metal, 4x8. But for shocards 11x14, 22x28, 14x22 but we meant vertical as the longest side. Consequently, I think there is no standard and that is why we are all so mixed up. Maybe we all need to think in x, y, and z like the computers do. That would take the confusion out...maybe perhaps definately perchance.

[Doug Bernhardt]

We also are getting hit this winter. It snowed first time several weeks ago and I, the eternal optimist, didn't realize it was here to stay and neglected to clear the laneway. I now have a huge problem with ruts and today I awoke to find about 18" additional snow in the yard and patio. If I make it through this winter without having a heart attack I think I'll consider a plow for my truck and a new career. The temperature has been hovering between 10-20degrees although Friday was a little below zero. When it comes to measuring I always triple check as well. In the construction business it is imperative to place one before the other. The same thing with satin, semi-gloss etc. Satin more and more designates flat it seems.

[James Kelly]

I never assume anything when i it comes to measurements. I always ask the customer which is the width or height, a bit like the old saying... 'measure twice, cut once'.

Following on to what Wayne said, here in the UK we say 8x4's, but for photos it's 8x6's, 10x8's, etc. It seems where you folks put the smalller number first, we put the larger numbner first, nothing at all to do whether it's portrait or landscape (or should that be landscape or portrait?).

[Mike Jackson]

Just a quick follow up:
The new blinds arrived a couple of days ago. I installed them in the two windows and all is well! I payed only for the good set. I learned a lesson that didn't cost me anything.

Mike Jackson