Applying Printed paper to glass with a varnish

DAVE SMITH · Post by **DAVE SMITH** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:18 am

Question for you guy's please .In the past for applying printed paper to glass I have used 1/3 quick rubbing varnish 1/3 damar varnish and a 1/3 resin gell. I think back along there was talk of a new formula on here.
Any suggestions would be good. I have tested ordinary wood varnish and upto now it works well but it possibly stands a chance of yellowing. The images I have shellaced to prevent any staining getting through. I have done a search and found some good ideas but was just wondering if things may of changed again before I proceed with this job.
Thanks
Dave

Kent Smith · Post by **Kent Smith** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:48 am

I am not sure about new formulas, I know Rick was experimenting with opticlaly clear resins and adhesives, including UV cure, but with mixed results. The formula you are using is traditional and has some specific reasons for each component. The quick rubbing ovbviously is for curing the mixture. The downside is that the pure white quick rub is a rare commodity as most are more orange or amber and tend to yellow quicker over time. The damar is used as the clear and because of its adhesive properties. It also stays elastic to allow you to smooth out the print. Adding res-n-gel adds eslaticity and allows you to use a rubber brayer to smooth the paper and force out excess varnish. The thinner the layer, the less it will appear yellow. White shellac is used on the print because it will not rewet while the varnishes dry. I have used just damar with quick rub or real Japan drier (as well as white lead solution) with good success but there may be other varnish type additives that will cure the damar.

I am sure there are other materials that will achieve the same results but since the old ones work for me, I have not experimented. The key is UV breakdown and yellowing over time as well as smooth application.

Larry White · Post by **Larry White** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:27 am

Dave-
Here are a couple previous discussions on this.
Adhering Photos to Glass
Prints on Glass

The formula you stated with the Resin Gel is what I would use for embossed varnish work. I've never used the RG for adhering a pictorial. Of course, you could always ask Mr. Dickinson, he's done a lot of that work with good results. ...or Noel Weber for that matter. The process has always been a bit tricky, and the larger the pictorial, the more tricky it gets.

When you have success, and I know you will, post your results... and....

What's a yarn? ...is that like when something real bad happens? ...no wait, that's a scurge....

-SWM

DAVE SMITH · Post by **DAVE SMITH** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:38 pm

Thanks boys! I was thinking down the lines of spar varnish and just damar might do the trick, I do have a piece I made with the 3 parts method and it still is good 15 years on so maybe use what works . But How about a faster drying varnish like speed dry uv acrylic clear 1 shot on its own ? I use this for my mother of pearl inlay and it works very well. It says on the tin it dries in 30 odd minutes, all we want is a free bubble picture at quicker drying time. Thanks for the input and re-assuring this matter.
Dave.

ps
Larry a yarn is a chat, you know like a talk with someone.........

Devon (county) Slang! a bit like the dukes of hazard.
Dave

Kent Smith · Post by **Kent Smith** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:37 pm

I would have a concern with the acrylic because it does not adhere well to glass. That is why we have not been using it for sealing gilding on windows. There are some optically clear adhesives that might be better but they are subject to UV.

The spar, if white, should work ok because it is being the dryer for the damar. The choice of quick rub was because it contains a higher concentration of dryer for a quicker dry time. If you can get some 30% white lead solution dryer, it will dry the damar in an hour or two and you don't need to add the other varnish necessarily.

The res-n-gel certainly slows the drying and was added only to allow more working time to roll out the bubbles and make the layer very thin.

I have not tried the laminating film but that has some merit of consideration at least. I think I would like to see some results of experiments for long term.

Doug Bernhardt · Post by **Doug Bernhardt** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:14 pm

I have been using frog juice for pearl and tinsel with great results. It was a Rick Glawson adjustment. My sniffer tells me there may be a few things in common with the 1-shot but not sure. It would be worth a test at least and would love to know the results although it might take a few years in England or a winter in Canada to know!!

Kent Smith · Post by **Kent Smith** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:14 pm

Frog Juice is a former Matthews single component acrylic urethane while the 1Shot and Clearstar products are single stage acrylics. The urethane allows it to adhere better to glass but still not the same as a silicone modified alkyd or two component urethane.

DAVE SMITH · Post by **DAVE SMITH** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:21 am

Hi Kent thanks for thie info. You have some very interesting suggestions for this process. Do you have any pics you could post here on some of the experiments you have done? would be good to see some examples. I am going to go with quick rubbing and Damar poss leave out the resin gel as I do not have any and like Larry said probably more use as an embossing texture medium.
Dave

Kent Smith · Post by **Kent Smith** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:15 pm

I am afraid I don't take as many photos as I should but if I find some of the process I will share. Some of my suggestions are related to the chemistry of the products more than making attempts myself.

I have had some recent success Edge printing in reverse on ER clear vinyl, applying then painting in bkg and filling in. This is seamless and has a good clear image with the clear adhesive.

Patrick Mackle · Post by **Patrick Mackle** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:43 pm

Dave,
I was thinking about your posted question and the thought came to me that those paper prints may have been attached with simple animal glue thinned down with water to the consistency of postage stamp or envelope glue. The water in the glue would naturally relax the paper making it mate well to the glass.
I believe the paper litho prints found on cigar boxes of the same period were adhered this way.
I met a woman who's job of 30+ years was affixing the paper labels onto Miller Beer bottles passing through their filling line.
I was surprised that the company was currently using animal glue instead of something newer, she said that the original way was faster and dependable.
Pat