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James Witchell

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

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DAVE SMITH
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James Witchell

Post by DAVE SMITH »

A friend of mine James Witchell who some of you met in 2006 dropped in for a visit yesterday. He dropped in for a cup of tea and a yarn.
He was on his way through to Cornwall to drop this Brilliant Cut and hand obsured laminated glass panel off to a customer.
My photography was not that great but it gives you an idea of what it looks like.it actually has about another 2 ft missing ontop(cloudy day) .James is constantly churning out cut glass for all sorts of homes and businesses, he was recently involved in alot of cutting for a prestigous pub in London called The Princess Louis. He worked with Rich Samsel in Santa Cruz, Ca for a year helping cut all the ornate lift mirrors for the Trump Plaza in New York. James along with Stuart Norton got me started with brilliant cutting.
Dave
Last edited by DAVE SMITH on Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kelly Thorson
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Post by Kelly Thorson »

Very pretty. What do you mean by hand obsured (obscured?)? I'm assuming you are reffering to the matte finish on the uncut areas, but how was that done if done by "hand"?
I believe there is no shame in failure. Rather, the shame lies in the loss of all the things that might have been, but for the fear of failure.
Kent Smith
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Post by Kent Smith »

intimidating and inspiring
Ron Berlier
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Post by Ron Berlier »

Kent Smith wrote:intimidating and inspiring

And in that order Mr. Smith:!: :D
Ron Berlier
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Doug Bernhardt
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Post by Doug Bernhardt »

Okay....can I guess? You use an abrasive with water and a block of glass to "scrub" the surface? I always thought James was an old fart like me....er maybe Raymond.
DAVE SMITH
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Post by DAVE SMITH »

Hand obscuring Kelly is when you have a fine slurry of sanblasting medium between two pieces of glass. The cuts in the glass are first polished and then by taking a piece of glass and using it like you would wash your car with a sponge in a circular motion you go over the cuts and grind the glass away with the 300 -/ 600 alluminium oxide powder mixed in with plenty of water ,you don't want any dirt or larger grits getting in the mix as it will cause big scratches in the finished work . As you grind the cuts remain polished due to them being below the surface of the grinding action. Alot of early Victorian work was done this way with mainly young apprentices doing the majority of the work. I have only done a few panels like this and know first hand how much work is involved. White acid toning and sandblasting is another way to go but masking out is then involved and the finish of sandblast is not nearly as nice.
Dave
vance galliher
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Post by vance galliher »

Hi Dave-
the art of brilliant cut work is just amazing to me...holding a large piece of glass, or even small one for that matter, over a spinning stone... grinding intricate shapes at different angles to a uniform depth without going thru the glass...................it is just simply amazing to how it is done! I am also curious..............about the cost of work like this. Pricing art is always interesting to me because there are no standards. The going rate for a plumber is 80 bucks a hour...the going rate for an artist?......hahaaaa..... I don't know...I think it's as much as the market will bare. For glass work, I get as much as I can..I often just pull a number out of the air ( although I think about it, I don't really set my prices by square foot or time)..I mainly think about what I really want to get for the work. Larry mentioned a $1200 price in some panels he recently did ,and I would have priced it about the same. For what your friend James did (that is if I could really do what you and James do).....say a 2'x 5' panel, I would want at least 5K ...would I be in the ballpark ?
vance galliher
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Post by vance galliher »

............rather than "would I be in the ballpark".......I would rather ask ...what would you charge for doing a piece like that?...........thanks
DAVE SMITH
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Post by DAVE SMITH »

Hi Vance.
I guess it's sometimes down to who your'e dealing with and if you really want the job. I ran my sign business for over 15 years ,the plan from the the start to make as much money as I could, but also to churn out quality workmanship which snowballed into even more work .It would be nice to get 5k for panels like this but you can't always. Now, with stick- on bevelled clusters and fancy door panels being made by computers and instant sandblasted glass, it's harder to get the general public to appreciate the older crafts. I'm not talking about designers and people involved with our National Trust and even some big pub chains - people will spend but you have to find that market. The panel he is holding took him 2 days to make .
I would say I would charge the same amount of money if I could cut at his speed. Due to these crafts being used extensivly at the turn of the century and up to this day ,so much brilliant cutting was done in houses and businesses throughout the British Isles. When these panels are broken I have found the insurance guy's pay top dollar for the work, but left to the ordinary person they would put back a piece of glass with some transparent film and stick the lead to the face or have it sandblasted. As you said you think about what you can get for the work. I have just had a job come in to price for gilding the inside of an 1890's church here in Torquay. This place is so over the top elaborate it's unreal-carvings ,gilding,incredible stained glass, you name it it's been done and all these years I have lived here I never Knew it was like what it is inside. I will probably need a team of 3 people If I get the job. There is way over 6000 books of gold to lay, just a really big job. Our national lottery grants will be paying for all the construction renovations and painting and gilding. My tender goes in on wednesday, so I will find out in about 2 weeks.There are 4 other companies quoting for it. Would be nice to get these jobs on a regular basis. At the moment I am in the middle of applying printed bird images to glass which also has turned out to be a very good money job and great to do. I think just like James and many of us on occasions make pieces of glass art that really should be kept simple due to it's cost ,but I tend to put everything into a panel to satify my self and maybe not my wallet on occasions.
Dave
Last edited by DAVE SMITH on Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
erik winkler
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Post by erik winkler »

Dave,

Did you get the job?
If so why and if not why not?
I wonder how you and your other competitors work with a calculation for 6000 books :shock:
My feeling would say that working with your tip really does speed up the work, but does your client must have the benefit for your faster working tip?
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
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DAVE SMITH
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Post by DAVE SMITH »

Hello Erik.
I never got the job . It's amazing how they move the goal posts......Someone put in a tender to paint all the work in a two pack gold rather than gild it. (crazy) It was all down to how much money was being granted.
More of the grant was used for outside work and not enough interior so i'm told.
Guess you can't get them all. I will be looking in there to see what they did. Maybe I could take you and your dad there in a few weeks time when you come here for the workshop..
The gilding tip is better for glass but would work on flat open areas as well. As for the client I guess the cost would be the same.
See you mate
Dave
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