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First gold leaf window in the United States

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

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Roderick Treece
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First gold leaf window in the United States

Post by Roderick Treece »

Sorry I can't post this article but heres the link to where it's at.You will have to down load the article.Look where is says "View Full Article".

It a great story about the first guy's to come over from the UK and start doing window gilding.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.h ... 946197D6CF

Enjoy
Patrick Mackle
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Post by Patrick Mackle »

Roderick,it
Interesting post. We all need a hundred dollar for a minute secret.
"Things have degenerated since then" How prohetic was that!
Pat
Kent Smith
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Post by Kent Smith »

Interesting article and of course from a NY perspective. I have also heard of early gilders in Boston and Philadelphia but not dates. There was not much good clear sheet glass before this time so I suspect the date is a good indicator of when glass gilding began here. Surface gilding was common befoe the Revolutionary War in the more advanced cities. I know of good examples of carriage lettering and striping dating from the 1730's. I would be interesting to find other early sign gilding history.

Thanks for finding this one.
DAVE SMITH
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Post by DAVE SMITH »

Rod.
I have seen some panels that Messinger and Son have made. They have several panels of glass still in place in various pubs around London.
Great little story.
Thanks
Dave
Roderick Treece
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Post by Roderick Treece »

Glad you guy's like the article.

Dave,
Do you have any information regarding the history of glass gilding in the UK and Europe?It would be interesting to find out where it all started and what path it took to get to where it is today.

Roderick
DAVE SMITH
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Post by DAVE SMITH »

I have only the books we all read on signwriting and gilding Rod. I guess a google search etc would be a good start. Would be a good exercise to find out some information. Next time I am in London I will be visiting the V&A Victoria and Albert Museums ,they would have the info on all this stuff. I have been thinking about organising a pub/glass tour of London pubs and glass work. sort of a 3 day tour of victorian London Sallon bars with all the original victorian glass signs still in place. I would probably organsie it with a workshop at my place first. Just an idea at the moment,what do you and others think? next year sometime probably twice.
Dave
Doug Bernhardt
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Post by Doug Bernhardt »

Rod......that's a terrific read and have sent it around. My compliments on your single mindedness!!....er and Davey....I'll join you on that PubCrawl both times.
Roderick Treece
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Post by Roderick Treece »

Doug,
Hey wait just one minute ,was that a compliment or what.single mindedness.I like the way that sounds any which way.

Here's a thought.How bout we do a video for U tube all about glass gilding ,we dress up in historic costums and go through the ages merrily gilding!


So here are some questions I haven't found the answer for yet.

Theres alot of glass gilding in UK,Italy,some in Portugal.Where in Europe did it start?
Where did it first appier ?

The other interesting thing is the date of the New York Time article ,1849.Same time as the gold rush in California.It would be interesting to find out when the first glass gilded sign made it to San Francisco.

PS Dave sorry I missed that bit about the historic pub tour/work shop ,sounds like a great time.

RT
Doug Bernhardt
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Post by Doug Bernhardt »

Hi again Rod.....I guess my question is more like "what were you searching for and where" that you stumbled on this article? Were there any other "links/leads" on that site? Also, what the heck is green baize? And Dave, more about where you have seen their work? which pubs etc
Last edited by Doug Bernhardt on Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
William Holohan
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Old N Y Times Article

Post by William Holohan »

Kent Smith
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Post by Kent Smith »

Doug, Green Baize is felt which is used to cover pool tables. It is a heavy wool blend felt so it is great for table covering for glass work. Green is also a good color to work glass against.
William Holohan
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And another interesting find...fire gilding

Post by William Holohan »

Roderick Treece
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Post by Roderick Treece »

William,
Thanks,I found one part interesting so far.It talks about "Queer combinations of names and Ludicrous blunders".I have a book titled "Hand book of early advertizing art".Published in 1947,The cover jacket states "It contains the best commercial art from Benjamin Franklin's time to the 1890's".The article you posted was from 1892.

One of my favorites is" Meandering Club and Gadabout Co."

Kent,Thanks,I was wondering what green baize was as well.

Doug,
My shearch is normally for glass gilding , glass signs or goldleaf signs.Some times you really gotta dig hard to find those gems.

Last night I found two sites ,one regarding verre eglomese where the owner professed to have resurected the art form herself.Imagine that.
The other was a forum on sandblasted glass art in which a lady by the name of Chapman was kind enough to let people know about Dave Smiths gilding classes he held last year at Larry Whites.She was promptly snubbed by one guy on the site and most of the others were to leary of strangers to see past their noses.

The only reason I mension those are to illustrate how great I think this site is at sharing information with others.


Roderick
Doug Bernhardt
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Post by Doug Bernhardt »

Am not sure I completely understand the post about Miss Chapman being snubbed, again it's a where and who thing (typing is so difficult to get a complete thought out) but I was reminded by Mark Oatis just how much Rick would have reveled in this topic. By now he would have had people at the library of congress chasing down these guys and their descendants. I did notice a pay section for business addresses etc on their page. When I first opened it, I went directly to the page and didn't show anything New York Times about hence the last questions. There'll be more on this I'm sure!!
Dennis Davis
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Post by Dennis Davis »

Regarding the Miss Chapman incident, there was a great deal of confusion regarding workshops that were to be held in California and Idaho. She made an error when she said that Dave Smith Chapman would be conducting the workshops. It was her first post in that forum and with the last names appearing to be the same, folks took it to be a commercial post. All this took place in early 2007. If you wish to read the entire thread, you can find it here http://www.cuttingedgesandcarving.com/f ... hl=chapman.

The following is my post later on in that same thread:

"Just to put your minds at ease, this is a legitimate workshop to be held here in Boise. If you were to go to the handlettering forum, you would see that I have offered housing, food, and transportation to people who may need a financial "boost" to get them into the workshop.

The Classic Sign and Design studio is owned by Noel Weber. I attended my first workshop at his place of business in late October. Larry White, of Walljewelry fame, was in attendance and gave a demonstration on Angel Gilding. Noel, Larry, and John Studden were excellent in the instruction and guidance they gave to those in attendance."

Sorry to hijack this thread. I just wanted to give clarity to what happened back then. It's a moot point at this time.

Dennis Davis
Boise, Idaho
Dennis Davis
Boise, Idaho
Roderick Treece
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Post by Roderick Treece »

Dennis,
Thanks,I did read your post by the way.

Roderick
DAVE SMITH
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Post by DAVE SMITH »

Sounds like they all got there knickers in a twist. Thanks though to Jean and Dennis for putting the story straight.
Who the hells Dave Chapman?

Dave Smith
Roderick Treece
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Post by Roderick Treece »

Here's an interesting article I found today.Look down at the first coulm on the left "Former prices of sign painting"

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.h ... 946197D6CF

It also talks about glass gilding and the making of "Framed glass signs"

Roderick
Doug Bernhardt
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Post by Doug Bernhardt »

anoter amazing read. I want to know more about all the people mentioned!!
Roderick Treece
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Post by Roderick Treece »

Doug,

One thing that always get's me is how things never change.Back in the 1800's these guy's are talking about making a great living,lot's of free time,no competetion and boom! More people show up doing infearer work driving prices down.
I haven't found much about what these guy's did later.It was interesting about the advent of the "FRAMED GLASS SIGN" but this latest artical doesn't talk about who, where and when they where made.

Roderick
Doug Bernhardt
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Post by Doug Bernhardt »

I found a pile of interesting fact"oids" there. Some of the wages mentioned in the first article (pre-civil war) were huge. The amounts paid by the various craftsmen to see the Isslinglass(gelatin) size technique was also enormous,. I think there are some amazing discoveries to be made here. All we need is someone like Rick Glawson to start the digging.
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