Welcome to The Hand Lettering Forum!
This is an interactive Bulletin Board on the topics of Sign making, design, fabrication, History, old Books and of coarse Letterheads, Keepers of the craft. The Hand Lettering Forum features links to resources, sign art history, techniques, and artists profiles. Learn more about Letterheads at https://theletterheads.com. Below you'll see Mchat has been added as a live communication portal for trial, and the Main forum Links are listed below.

Glue for Smalt/blasting material.

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

Moderators: Ron Percell, Mike Jackson, Danny Baronian

Post Reply
erik winkler
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:48 pm
Location: Amsterdam Netherlands
Contact:

Glue for Smalt/blasting material.

Post by erik winkler »

Since there is already a glue post gonig on, I hoped maybe you could answer this question for me.
When I was in Whistler Vancouver Canada, I saw this sign.
I already read about this technique somewhere, but I can not recollect or find where exactly.

Questions:
1) What kind of glue and steps are used to adhere the big black blasting grit?
2) Is it sprayed on or brushed on using a mask to ensure the 3mm black interfall between the gold and grit?

Thank you,
Attachments
P1050609.JPG
P1050609.JPG (154.08 KiB) Viewed 9059 times
P1050607.JPG
P1050607.JPG (147.36 KiB) Viewed 9062 times
P1050605.JPG
P1050605.JPG (73.99 KiB) Viewed 9057 times
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
Jerry Berg
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 3:17 pm
Location: pacific northwest

Re: Glue for Smalt/blasting material.

Post by Jerry Berg »

Erik,

Here is an article which should answer your question. http://signweb.com/index.php/channel/8/id/811

I've used smith's cream and the epoxy method and like the epoxy best.
erik winkler
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:48 pm
Location: Amsterdam Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Glue for Smalt/blasting material.

Post by erik winkler »

That looks like a great article Jerry!
Jus printed it out and will read it tonight.
Thanks.
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
Larry White
Posts: 1213
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:18 am

Re: Glue for Smalt/blasting material.

Post by Larry White »

Hi Erik-
I like to use Hold Fast Smalt Glue. It's thick, like honey, and is mixed with about 1/3 volume of OneShot lettering enamel, the same color as the smalt. I brush it on, then using one of those shaker jars (like the ones at the pizza parlor for the red crushed red peppers), I shake on a heavy layer of the smalt. I then tap the piece all around and shake off the excess. Reapply, tap, and let dry a couple days. Then shake off the excess. It really works good.

Hold Fast Smalt Glue

As for the technique used on that particular sign...I'm really not sure.
Larry White
That's enough for now... it's gettin' late
Town Of Machine
http://www.walljewelry.com
erik winkler
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:48 pm
Location: Amsterdam Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Glue for Smalt/blasting material.

Post by erik winkler »

Thank you Larry for the link, but I am afraid it will not be very cool to order this glue by airmail again.
Must find an alternative glue with the same properties from a Dutch brand.....
What these properties are besides the thickness of honey I do not know, maybe the article jerry mentioned will reveil that.
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
Mike Jackson
Site Admin
Posts: 1705
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:02 pm
Location: Jackson Hole, WY
Contact:

Re: Glue for Smalt/blasting material.

Post by Mike Jackson »

Here's an article or ducument Rick Glawson wrote:
http://www.theletterheads.com/glawson/osmalto.html

You can also use thick silk screen ink, either enamel or laquer based.

Most pre-mixed sign enamel is too thin, so all the other additives are intended to make the paint thicker.

In the old days, they painted around the lettering with a brush. That required the paint to be thicker than normal, often applied with a fitch or cutter. Most people us a mask now, giving you much more control and the paint can be applied much quicker.
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
erik winkler
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:48 pm
Location: Amsterdam Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Glue for Smalt/blasting material.

Post by erik winkler »

Thanks Mike,

This was one of the articles I could not find anymore.

With all this information i must be able to glue some grit without blasting someones head because of falling grit.

Thanks guys!
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
joe cieslowski
Posts: 338
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:15 pm
Location: east canaan ct
Contact:

Re: Glue for Smalt/blasting material.

Post by joe cieslowski »

Erik,

The shop in town has been using West Systems epoxy adheasive and has never had any problems. The brand probably isn't important. They lay on a heavy coat with a china bristle brush and throw it out (the brush)......carefull, it sets fast!

Joe
Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!
erik winkler
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:48 pm
Location: Amsterdam Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Glue for Smalt/blasting material.

Post by erik winkler »

joe cieslowski wrote:Erik,

The shop in town......
Joe
Joe,
In town?.... but I live in Amsterdam Nederland Europe.....
We do not have West Coast Epoxy here...
Same as all other products mentioned here on the forum. :mrgreen:
But with a little help from you guys I can make the translations and find a local brand with the same properties as yours.
I already have Smiths Cream and One Shot black, that I ordered a few months ago from Canadian Sign supply.
This route was not very nice, because due to customs and special shipping (not permitted by air) it took too long.

But in the article Jerry mentioned it states that this mixture is not very good for long lasting adhesive outside...
That articles suggestes that one should preferably use two component epoxy...., but how can you make transparant epoxy black without compromising the internal chemical bonding?
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
joe cieslowski
Posts: 338
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:15 pm
Location: east canaan ct
Contact:

Re: Glue for Smalt/blasting material.

Post by joe cieslowski »

I asked about that as well. They don't color it. The epoxy is clear. Most of their signs use aluminum under the smalts with a black finish......it is heavily scuffed tho.

Joe
Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!
Doug Bernhardt
Posts: 1077
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:29 am
Location: Ottawa Canada
Contact:

Re: Glue for Smalt/blasting material.

Post by Doug Bernhardt »

I'm with Larry on the hold-fast. I've tried all sorts of other concoctions and this has worked perfectly everytime. I know in different climates (like california) you can do things that would be impossible in Canada for instance. Erik.....I'm sure you can attain these materials including a marine epoxy in your country.....it will just have a different name, but a boat building supplier is the place to start.
erik winkler
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:48 pm
Location: Amsterdam Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Glue for Smalt/blasting material.

Post by erik winkler »

Doug Bernhardt wrote:I'm with Larry on the hold-fast. I've tried all sorts of other concoctions and this has worked perfectly everytime. I know in different climates (like california) you can do things that would be impossible in Canada for instance. Erik.....I'm sure you can attain these materials including a marine epoxy in your country.....it will just have a different name, but a boat building supplier is the place to start.
The epoxy I have, since my failed tests doming laser cut acrylic letters.
I was trying to get some nice thick 3d letters which in turn I could gild, but it was not really high 3d.
So I have the epoxy in thin substance=semi transparant and have the epoxy in thick substance=white opague.
But both would make the black background ugly because the black color would be gone...

I know for sure we do not have the ' hold-fast' , since nowwhere and nobody ever (in my travels through Nederland) used the Smalt/Osmalto and therefore do not need the 'hold-fast' .
I will try to look it up on the internet even further, because again I must try to figher out what it properties are exactly so I can buy something similar here.
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
Robare M. Novou
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 11:18 am
Location: Milwaukee
Contact:

Re: Glue for Smalt/blasting material.

Post by Robare M. Novou »

Eric, There is a Nazdar Location in England

I use the Flock Adhesive Listed below, its thick, it comes in colors, its eazy to use, it intermixes, and it holds!

PX SERIES
PERMA-FLEX FLOCK ADHESIVE
SCREEN INK
TECHNICAL DATA SHEET
© 1994, 2006 Page 1 of 3 Rev. 2.00
PX Series is formulated as a pigmented adhesive for flocking applications on a wide variety of natural textile materials.
The excellent opacity and “short” body allows ease in achieving a thick adhesive deposit for flocking. PX Series is ideal
for use without a high temperature dryer.
SUBSTRATES Cotton, cotton/polyester blends, some synthetics, Sunbrella®
USER INFORMATION
MESH 86-110 tpi (34-43 tpcm) monofilament polyester mesh for most applications
STENCIL Solvent resistant direct emulsions and capillary films
SQUEEGEE 70-80 durometer polyurethane squeegee
COVERAGE 400-600 square feet (34-56 square meters) per gallon depending upon ink deposit
PRINTING PX Series ink is formulated to be press ready, but may be thinned if needed. (See additives
section).
Add only enough ink to the screen to be able to print for 5-10 minutes. Add additional ink in
small increments throughout the print run to maintain screen stability. Thoroughly mix the
inks prior to printing.
Maintain ink temperatures at 65°-90°F (18°-32°C) for optimum print drying performance.
Lower temperatures increase the ink viscosity, impairing both flow and drying. Elevated
temperatures lower the ink viscosity, reducing print definition, film thickness and opacity.
Pretest to determine optimum printing performance for a particular set of ink, substrate,
screen, press, and drying variables/conditions.
DRYING/
CURING
PX Series is an oxidizing ink system that requires 12-24 hours before full cure is achieved.
ADDITIVES All additives should be thoroughly mixed into the ink before each use. Prior to production, test
any additive adjustment to the ink.
Reducer: Use PX30 to reduce the viscosity of these inks. Add up to 10% by weight.
CLEAN UP Screen Wash (Prior to Reclaim): Use IMS401 Premium Textile Screen Wash
Press Wash (On Press): Use IMS501 Premium Textile Press Wash
STORAGE The inks react to temperature. Store tightly covered at temperatures between 65°-90°F (18°-
32°C). Ink taken from the press should not be returned to the original container; store
separately to avoid contaminating unused ink.
PX SERIES
PERMA-FLEX FLOCK ADHESIVE
SCREEN INK
TECHNICAL DATA SHEET
© 1994, 2006 Page 2 of 3 Rev. 2.00
GENERAL INFORMATION
INK HANDLING All personnel mixing and handling these products must wear gloves and eye protection. Clean up
spills immediately. If ink does come in contact with skin, wipe ink off with a clean, dry,
absorbent cloth (do not use solvent or thinner). Wash the affected area with soap and water.
Consult the PX Series Material Safety Data Sheet for further instructions and warnings.
PRODUCT OFFERING
STANDARD
PRINTING
COLORS
The Standard Printing Colors have excellent opacity, flow characteristics, and are intended to
work well from the container.
COLOR CARD
MATERIALS
The following screen printed sample is available:
CARDDA-PX Color Selector Guide
PACKAGING All items listed below are available in quart containers. Those products marked with an
asterisk (*) are also available in gallon containers.
Stock Number Standard Printing Colors Stock Number Standard Printing Colors
PX10 Yellow PX23 Navy Blue
PX13 Orange PX24 Black*
PX15 Dark Green PX25 White*
PX16 Brown PX28 Purple
PX18 Scarlet Red PX32 Gold
PX19 Fire Red PX33 Kelly Green
PX21 Royal Blue PX75 Super Opaque White*
PX SERIES
PERMA-FLEX FLOCK ADHESIVE
SCREEN INK
TECHNICAL DATA SHEET
© 1994, 2006 Page 3 of 3 Rev. 2.00
PACKAGING Additives/Reducers are available in gallon containers. Cleaners are available in gallon, 5
gallon and 55 gallon containers
Stock Number Additives/Reducers Stock Number Clean Up
PX30 Thinner IMS401 Premium Textile Screen Wash
IMS501 Premium Textile Press Wash
Nazdar® stands behind the quality of this product. Nazdar® cannot, however, guarantee the finished results because Nazdar®
exercises no control over individual operating conditions and production procedures. While technical information and advice
on the use of this product is provided in good faith, the User bears sole responsibility for selecting the appropriate product for
their end-use requirements. Users are also responsible for testing to determine that our product will perform as expected during
the printed item’s entire life-cycle from printing, post-print processing, and shipment to end-use. This product has been
specially formulated for screen printing, and it has not been tested for application by any other method. Any liability associated
with the use of this product is limited to the value of the product purchased from Nazdar®.
Based on information from our raw material suppliers, these products are formulated to contain less than 0.06% lead.
If exact heavy metal content is required, independent lab analysis is recommended.
Nazdar 8501 Hedge Lane Terrace, Shawnee, KS 66227-3290
Toll Free: 866.340.3579 Phone: 913.422.1888 Fax: 913.422.2296
http://www.nazdar.com: e-mail: custserv@nazdar.com
What's On Your Book Shelf ?

http://www.milwaukeesignworks.com
Mike Jackson
Site Admin
Posts: 1705
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:02 pm
Location: Jackson Hole, WY
Contact:

Re: Glue for Smalt/blasting material.

Post by Mike Jackson »

Erick, if your background is already painted black (or the same color as the smalts), then clear adhesive will still show black in any void areas where smalts is not covering it. With most uses of hol-fast, you add paint to the mixture that matches the smalts for basically the same reason. Going that route, you could be painting over a red background with black smalts adhesive and then pour black smalts.

Essentially this process is just like pouring glitter over Elmer's glue we all did in grade school.
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
Doug Bernhardt
Posts: 1077
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:29 am
Location: Ottawa Canada
Contact:

Re: Glue for Smalt/blasting material.

Post by Doug Bernhardt »

Also....would do some tests to make sure the marine epoxy will hold to acrylic letters period. I used a plastic bowl whenever I had to mix a larger amount. It wouldn't stick to it. Mike.had a chuckle about the flitters. Used those all the time on show-cards we did for entertainment/hotel bands when Istarted in the sign biz. And no....I'm not telling how long ago that was, although I'm willing to bet the technique itself gives me away.
Post Reply