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This is an interactive Bulletin Board on the topics of Sign making, design, fabrication, History, old Books and of coarse Letterheads, Keepers of the craft. The Hand Lettering Forum features links to resources, sign art history, techniques, and artists profiles. Learn more about Letterheads at https://theletterheads.com. Below you'll see Mchat has been added as a live communication portal for trial, and the Main forum Links are listed below.

The Thing We Call "Handlettering"

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

Moderators: Ron Percell, Mike Jackson, Danny Baronian

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oatis
Posts: 66
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:33 am

The Thing We Call "Handlettering"

Post by oatis »

A Tenth-or-so re-read of Charlie Thames' Autobiographical story in AMAL, (gathered for the enduring benefit of all---word-for-word--by Doc Welty) makes apparent the plain-dirt facts of the matter, and stated more eloquently than anybody I've run into lately.
A visceral passion, embedded in hand,brain and heart lead to the condition where a craftsperson recalls perfectly, to the extent of color, letter choice and design, a sign lettered SIXTY-TWO years before.
A honest appraisal of ones own sign making memories will reveal a similar, implanted position about the work you did by hand. You can remember the time of day, what the weather was like AND the design.

Well, You just don't have that w/ that other kind o' signs.

I weigh in on this sort of thing from time to time.
Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson »

Hi Mark,
It is nice to read your thought provoking posts dealing with the "passion" of a hand crafted product. I'd like to personally extend the scope a bit and request that you and other "seasoned' signmakers make a few "nuts and bolts" posts, sharing your wealth of experience.

We have a nice group of readers, covering a broad range of skill levels. The newer readers are often too imtimidated to post, and the veteran sign makers don't post because....well, I don't know?

Mike Jackson
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
Billy Pickett
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 11:59 am

Post by Billy Pickett »

...I try, but can't remember too many of the sundry "No Parking" signs I used to letter almost every before vinyl happened. Along with "pool rules" and whatever was thrown at me daily as a helper...they're all a blur now.

...When I look at my old portfolios however, I can vividly recall the clients and circumstances for all of 'em. Each sign photo has a story behind it, some major victories, some dismal failures, and everything in between.
Jill Marie Welsh
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:40 am
Location: Butler, PA USA

Post by Jill Marie Welsh »

It is strange how vividly you can recall even what music you were listening to while you hand-lettered a particular sign.
There is no better or finer feeling than when I get that rare day when everything flows perfectly and what falls out of my brush looks exactly as I had envisioned it.
I can also remember every screw-up I ever had, from the early PLAN AHEAd type errors, to every annoying question asked by bystanders, the times my fineline tape snapped across wet letters when removing it, occasions that I dripped paint (an old-timer told me to turn drips into "stars") etc etc.
Love....Jill
Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson »

Maybe fond memories and recollections aren't necessarily tied only to Hand Letterying, but more to select events we were passionate about at the time. Hand lettering a sign might be just one example, while mowing the yard might be an example of an experience we might not commit to long term memory. For some, the tactile experience of dragging the brush might highlight the sensation. For others, hitting the exact arc on a digitized line the first time might ignite the same sensation. I can remember many of my days out on the river, fly fishing with an eagle flying over, or a river otter family spooking the fish. I might remember the direction of the wind, the insect hatch coming off and maintain a vivid memory of the rise form of a large trout tucked under a branch. Others might recall minute details of a high school football game from 30 years ago—the sights, the smells, the crispness in the air and so forth.

It's the passion, regardless of the process or product, that flames those embedded memories. Luckily, most of us are blessed with "selective memory". We might tend to maintain and nurture the many pleasant days of lettering (or fishing), but easily forget the days leaning out off a ladder, or lettering a corrugated trailer in the heat, or the wind blowing the patterns off the wall before they get pounced. We probably got up in the morning feeling the same passion, but other events might cause the day's experience to wither into the gray over the years.

I am sure I will remember my first glue chipped piece, my first hand routed sign, and my first CNC routed sign 'til they bury me. Same for seeing my first piece of glass turn gold before my eyes. Mark will remember his Clarkson panel the rest of his life, among many others he produced, whether he brush lettered them or used a variety of techniques and materials. Do something with a passion, and you will remember it!

Mike
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
Dan Seese
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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Post by Dan Seese »

Hey, Mike.
I think your observations about what burns a memory onto our minds is accurate.
However what I interpret Mark to be saying is not that hand lettering is the only thing about which one might be passionate, but that – this being the Handlettering Forum – it is something about which we can and should be passionate.
In an age in which all things old and traditional are pooh-poohed as being inferior to that which is novel and progressive, it's helpful to be reminded of our roots. Reading a book that has survived the centuries will give us a grasp of reality that the latest best-seller only obscures. In the same way, I sense in Mark, a passion for that underlying art on which all sign making rests – brushed letter forms. I hope he continues to bring us back to center.
I’d better get back to work.
And, though it's not likely to be memorable, I'll be doing a bit of hand lettering today.
Mike Jackson
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Post by Mike Jackson »

Dan,
Yes, I agree and I do understand Mark's "centering" post. Being one of the site administrators, I am also protective of the people that visit this board that don't necessarily hand letter, but make SIGNS (under the general topics of sign making, fabrication, design, Letterheads, sign books, etc). It seems difficult enough just to get people to talk about items in the list without causing any group to feel inferior or inadequate because they don't letter a panel with a brush. My reply was intended to simply broaden the scope of his "intent" for the rest. Again, I believe it is the passion, not the tool.

Along with reading Mark's post, I take a tangent viewpoint. I think about our good friend, David Butler. I don't think David hand letters much anymore. He has, instead, migrated towards his computer, Wacom tablet, and monitor to create some of the most dynamic sign designs and layouts ever produced—I'd put his designs up against anything Atkinson, Strong, Imelli, Welo, Matthews, etc any day. And, I am sure David is passionate about his work and will remember doing most of his layouts. David starts with a pencil sketch, just like the old masters, but instead of hand lettering and hand inking the final plates over a light table, David is merely using a superior technology in today's era.

In the larger scheme here, I prefer to be only one voice out of a couple hundred registered users. Since many chose to read, but stay silent, I unfortunately get more air time. There "should be" 165 different takes on Mark's post, but we will probably only hear from about a half dozen.

I'd love to see this thread fill up with replies from people describing some of their vivid memories of good times in the sign business, whether they are specifically focused on the art of dragging a quill across a panel or fit into one of the other categories. Charlie Thaymes was remembering signs he did 60 years ago. Tell us something you are sure you will remember in another 30 years.

Mike
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
Jay Allen
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:32 am

Post by Jay Allen »

Well said all.

Mike, your last comment was especially well put. The people who post here ALL must be included.

I think Mark's post is especially valid as he is such a force in our craft. The term 'centering' also seems especially accurate in what I suspect is Mark's desire to discuss matters of the brush - staying true to the 'name' Handlettering Forum' since he is so connected to the brush still. Though as Mike said, you'd see fewer and fewer posts as so few people use their brushes much anymore - so Mike wants to keep the discussion 'open to all' and discussing the passion - not the chosen skill.

As Mark said "I weigh in on these things from time to time". That tells me (correct me if I'm wrong, Mark) that's what Mark would like to talk about more - with no desire to disrepect other chosen forms of the craft. In fact, what I read was "when was the last time you fondly recalled a sign you routed on your router?

I can honestly say there was less joy (and no visceral memories!) in assembling pieces of a routed sign than the joy I find when I pick up a brush and work on a mural with my friends. When those moments occur I do remember more of the details. I hope newer readers peruse this post and dissect each point made as they are all so valid - and a reminder of how much more colorful a 'passionate' life is.

I appreciate Mark and Mike's (and all other regular posters of fact and data here - sorry I can't do more) Letterhead efforts at keeping the craft alive by reminding us to appreciate those moments as they occur.

The readers of this board - and the contributors (or sometimes lack thereof) certainly want to participate in what they know best - not least. But the 'teachers' are still willing to share - and continue to do on their own time.

So read the posts and make the posts everybody - but even if you can only post a quick note, do so. Nobody here bites (hard). Me? I'm so doggone busy that all I have time for is opinions. :)
Jack Wills
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:29 pm

Post by Jack Wills »

I was reminded after a deadening period of time about such things and
after all the divorcing and domestic haggles,business issues, selling off
investments and learning to live again to the point where there was
some remote memory left. The reminder came from a friend in Auburn,
CA who ran a shop called Timberline Signs. I was visiting his shop one day
and he said to me "do you remember the laundry room rules sign you
did for me back in 82 ?" It still looks as good today as it did then." I asked
where it was and went to look at it and it amazed me that I could
actually do such a work of art. Simple Helvetica, (in vouge at the time)
and it looked great. I was surprised.
I know there were some cream puffs left behind here and there in
the midwest and Texas, where I had lots of shops who wanted my
services.
Bottom line? It was just a job!
But what a way to be employed. Even doin' a snap here and there.
My hands don't work as well and fine art is me game now so I'll be self
supported through that.
They were good days and good times from the 50's to 90's.
No regrets.
There weren't a lot of master pieces to fan my feathers about but to me
every sign that I hand lettered was a winner, even the NO PARKING signs.

CrazyJack
Catharine C. Kennedy
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 5:28 am
Location: Chatham Center, NY

Post by Catharine C. Kennedy »

As someone who has come to this field rather late, I will probably not ever make my living doing only signs- but I work at mastering hand skills and learning painting is certainly a joy- to look at a newly finished sign & think "Gee, I did that- how cool!" is an awesome feeling!
I very much appreciate reading the posts and rememberances here of the folks who have been there, done that, and are STILL doing this work. My thanks to you all- keep the stories coming! :lol:
Catharine C. Kennedy
Chatham Center, NY
David Wright
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 3:15 pm

Post by David Wright »

I remember in the early 80's being asked by a store to design a logo and paint it on their buildings.
n Nemo's Waterbedroom with the Cap and a parrot on his shoulder (how original).
The joy of being trusted and even appreciated for this, and how I couldn't wait to drive my wife and little kids by to show them what I do for a living. I remember many things surrounding this time and still keep a photo on my office wall of a few jobs with him.
You know, as amatuer as it was, I still don't know if customers nowadays ever appreciate what I do as much as they did when I produced this type of work.

My wife has a holiday card handcrafted by a friend with very little artistic ability, but everytime I look at it I see the beauty and sincerity that only handcraftmanship can give. If she would have done the same thing with a program preinstalled on her computer I wouldn't have given it a second look.
Wright Signs
Wyandotte, Michigan
Danny Baronian
Site Admin
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Post by Danny Baronian »

It's great to see the interest and comments regarding hand painted and hand crafted signage, but somethings missing............

Who's going to be the first to post pictures of their latest work?

Instructions for posting photos are here -
viewtopic.php?t=200[/
Danny Baronian
Baronian Mfg.
CNC Routing & Fabrication
http://www.baronian.com
Bob Rochon
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:47 pm

Post by Bob Rochon »

The Main Reason you may remember a given project so vividly when you hand letter it, is you are responsible for, and part of EVERY single step and process, it is as you become one with the brush and the panel. It is a sense of connection.

To illustrate this on a simpler note, try walking a familiar road that you ZOOM down in your car or truck on a daily basis. when you are wrapped in your glass and steel projectile, you are removed from that element and are no longer a part of every inch of that road. But walk down that same road and watch how you notice every pebble, or you see a hole in the ground where an animal might live, or maybe even a cool setting where you might want to wander off to to explore.

You are more aware of every step and process, you are part of your surroundings.

If it wasnt so fulfilling to the soul then why dont people take relaxing drives around the neighborhood after work instead of walks?

So I see Marks post as clearly as the rain falling here today, I also see Mike's point as well, but as a person who has come late to this board, I can say I come here for hand lettered info and content, I can get regular sign making pooh pooh in other places, quite a few other places, what I can't get at those places is free talk and expression about hand lettering and the techniques. I also know from the meets that I attend that no one drags thier plotter to a meet or an edge to stick vinyl on a wall. I Know a lot of newer sign makers would LOVE to learn the old ways and are passionate about it even in todays market.

Posting with not many replies does not mean that there isnt a bunch of people reading and learning, some like myself don't have the same experience as a lot of you and therefore will not offer too much advice for I beleive any advise I can give will fall short of the advice you can give as you have the greater experience and knowledge.

I would hate to see passionate posts about hand lettering be toned down just to be politically correct. I have learned just waking up in the morning can offend someone else, so why walk on eggshells? We all know computers are our main tools today but it would be a great disservice to the history of signs not to pass it on the old ways and the passion!

I just came back from a meet this weekend and realized I have never been to a meet yet, and I emphasize YET that someone has done a seminar or teaching on hand layout and proper spacing. Now I naver had the proper teachings myself and would love to perfect that part. I think that would add so much even to computer signmaking.
"Some People's Kids"
oatis
Posts: 66
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:33 am

Post by oatis »

Bob, It was great to read your post! Between your request for basics and Mike and Danny's reminder to contribute more, I'll get off my keister and see if I can figure out how to submit some pictures here.

That goes for the letter construction and spacing stuff, too---though it's often easier to demonstrate than describe something.

Since this is a Letterheads-influenced site, it makes more sense to offer something tangible, instead of just reminiscing. I'll try to be better about participating.

So how DO you post pictures, anyhow?

Oatis
Mike Jackson
Site Admin
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Post by Mike Jackson »

Mark,
Check out the third or forth post on the Hand Lettering Forum called "Posting Photos on this Forum"...or click the link below:
viewtopic.php?t=200&sid=015351dc2d6c2ed ... 51214bea87

Its should explain it well enough to get you started.

Take care,
Mike Jackson
Mike Jackson / co-administrator
Golden Era Studios
Vintage Ornamental Clip art
Jackson Hole, WY

Photography site:
Teton Images
Jackson Hole photography blog:
Best of the Tetons
cam bortz
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am

Post by cam bortz »

Even those of us who still hand-letter a great deal use the 'puter for a lot of the patterns, if only because it's easier and faster to fine-tune a design on screen than on paper. Having done signs for many years with all hand-drawn patterns, I can well remember looking at finished patterns - the result of several hours work - and wishing I'd made a line of copy an inch lower or a bit smaller or larger or some other small change, and faced with doing it all again, did the sign as is, knowing it could have been better. That is one change brought by the addition of the computer, that time restraints no longer cause me to do a less than perfect job than I might like.

That said, there is no doubt in my mind that the hours spent doing those patterns by hand made me a better designer, and that when I did go to a computer, I had those visual ideas in place. Very rarely do I generate a design on screen that hasn't been tweaked and fussed over and fine-tuned til I get it (in my eyes) exactly right; from kerning and spacing and positioning to testing different color schemes, my computer allows me to quickly and accurately make these adjustments.

Bob and I talk frequently and he knows how I feel about these issues. the computer is no different from any other tool; it can help make a good designer better, but it cannot by itself improve the skills of someone who has not made the effort to understand the basic principles, or has not developed the trained eye to see flaws. As with hand-lettering itself, there are no shortcuts and no substitutes for practice and study.
BruceJackson
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Post by BruceJackson »

I'll take you up on that Danny.
Here's my latest hand-painted job. Finished last week. It took about two weeks all up. The Wall is 6 metres high and is a round room. The width is about 27 metre, but of course the photograph only shows a small section.

This was done in the contemplation space at the Eureka Centre in Ballarat (Victoria, Australia). The Eureka stockade was Australia's one and only claim to a civil uprising. The skirmish was squashed quickly and 30 people died in the battle but it had repercussions that changed the course of our history. It is coming up for 150 years in a few weeks and this space celebrates the impacted on Australia.

The nationalities of people involved are represented and the quote (in red)is from the Ballarat Reform League Charter written in 1854 stating the basis for democratic reform.


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