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Carving Tools and Sharpening

Hand Lettering topics: Sign Making, Design, Fabrication, Letterheads, Sign Books.

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Kelly Thorson
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Carving Tools and Sharpening

Post by Kelly Thorson »

I finally listened to a couple of smart fellows and replaced my carving tools with some good Swiss and German ones. Fortunately they came sharpened and ready for honing. I was looking on the net to make sure I remembered my sharpening lessons and didn't mess these nice tools up and I came across this site and thought it was a good source of information in a fairly concise format.
I also found this You Tube video that is very well presented and informative.
What I really like about both links is they show you how to sharpen without any fancy gadgets.
It seems in keeping with the hand tooled aspect of carving.
I hope they are of use to someone, now I'm off to make a couple of strops and hone my new tools.
I believe there is no shame in failure. Rather, the shame lies in the loss of all the things that might have been, but for the fear of failure.
Doug Bernhardt
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Re: Carving Tools and Sharpening

Post by Doug Bernhardt »

Kelly.....Didn't get a chance to fully see the you-tube video (old computer has no sound etc) but would avoid the methods of the first for sure. It's long been known by metalurgists that quick cooling in an "already tempered" steel is prone to failure. I could talk at length about this but all to say "don't!" We could also talk for hours about the various companies that make carving tools and their long and short comings....the secret is actually in the honing. Keeping a constant angle is the most important. Find a method(there are hundreds) to anchor the tool in the same place everytime during honing with a slow moving,hard felt wheel well honed with a rouge of choice. The rest becomes study and more study. Some ppl just are so good at this. I have had to work long and hard learning to get an edge I could love and none of the above would satisfy me. Chris Pye (whom I know)is excellent at this and I would pay attention to his techniques.....might also see the shortened version of a video or 3 of his on YouTube
joe cieslowski
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Re: Carving Tools and Sharpening

Post by joe cieslowski »

Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!
Kelly Thorson
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Re: Carving Tools and Sharpening

Post by Kelly Thorson »

Thanks for chiming in Doug. I know diddly squat about sharpening tools. I have a couple of carving books with instructions in but they don't jive with each other. I looked up Chris Pye on You Tube but there was just a trailer to a larger video.
For over 15 years my fathers lathe has been sitting idle because the tools that came with it were so dull. I keep promising myself that I'll get them sharpened and finish turning a chess set from caragana I started when I first got it. :roll: I did notice that there was lot more information available on sharpening turning tools. Maybe I'll actually get to that this winter.
I believe there is no shame in failure. Rather, the shame lies in the loss of all the things that might have been, but for the fear of failure.
Kelly Thorson
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Re: Carving Tools and Sharpening

Post by Kelly Thorson »

Joe,
With all respect, the problem with trying to learn something like that off a forum is two fold. First, there tend to be conflicting opinions, and if you are starting at square one it just confuses you further. Secondly there is usually a fair amount of other "stuff" to sift through. I'm at a stage in my life where I don't easily absorb information if there are distractions.
On top of that I tend to be a visual learner. I absorb and understand a lot better if I can see what I'm trying to learn.
I sure don't mean to dis anything you have said in the past or question your truth. I just thought the links were easy to follow, if there is bad information in them then by all means point it out as Doug did.
I wasn't looking for information, or I would have done the "search" but I'm more than willing to hear your opinion and why the links bothered you.
I believe there is no shame in failure. Rather, the shame lies in the loss of all the things that might have been, but for the fear of failure.
joe cieslowski
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Re: Carving Tools and Sharpening

Post by joe cieslowski »

Kelly,

I know.

I know.

I know.

If you go back to my first post on the Letterville thread and read about how i suggested this topic should be discussed and framed, you would (as all beginners) could compare apples to apples, etc. and actually make intellegent choices.

I don't think that will happen......soooooooo, beginners like you loose out.

It has nothing to do with me personally.....it really doesn't.

You want me to rip someone elses method? I won't. I lay out the method I use and WHY I do it this way. When you understand my reasoning and methods.......then YOU can compare and make your own choices based on some basic information.

Sharpening, like carving is a quite simple matter of physics and mechanics. And a little metalurgy. I didn't invent it. It's not mine. I use it to my advantage. I truley wish that you will be able too as well........I'd truley love to see what you could create with it.

BTW, what brand of tools did you buy?

Joe
Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!
Kelly Thorson
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Re: Carving Tools and Sharpening

Post by Kelly Thorson »

Okay, I get the part about the bevel, makes sense. I have a veritas honing guide and angle jig for my regular chisels, same principle.
Is there a difference in shaping the tool for carving in the round versus incised carving, or are they different tools completely?
I bought a couple of Henry Taylor straight gouges as well as veining tool, a basic Hirsch set and a Warren Fishtail gouge, which although is likely not the quality, it seems to hold an edge ok & I like it a lot for it's ability to remove volume fast, as right now I'm carving some elements (a wagon wheel and wheat) in a 6'x6' sign. I quit for a while until I could get some better tools. It won't be anything refined like the two of you do, but the customer really likes where it is going and it will be viewed from the roadside, so it's an OK place to start. The cedar I'm using is 100+ yrs old (I mean it's been cut that long) so it is somewhat dry and corky. The new tools made a world of difference. I often carve elements to add to a sign, but I've been using what Rodger and Murray reffered to as "war clubs". I'll keep them around for carving concrete. ;)
Then of course I have the JC carving knife which has a very worn blade, but is still kicking. :)
I believe there is no shame in failure. Rather, the shame lies in the loss of all the things that might have been, but for the fear of failure.
erik winkler
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Re: Carving Tools and Sharpening

Post by erik winkler »

Kelly,

I totally understand what you mean...
I have the same thing here, I see a lot of nice pictures and stories, but seeing it in real life is sooo different than reading posts and more than often contradicting arguments that it is sometimes confusing to understand.
Escpecially when english is not my native tonque.

I think I have a good sugestion for you.
Chris Pye, the Dougster talked about, made some dvd's about woodcarving letters and in that series he also made one dvd about sharpening your tools. The series is directed by Rob Cosman a first class woodworker.
I would really recommend you this!!!

http://www.robcosman.com/dvd.php


Erik
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
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joe cieslowski
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Re: Carving Tools and Sharpening

Post by joe cieslowski »

Kelly,

The tools used for in the round carvings and all relief techniques are the same.

Joe
Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!
Doug Bernhardt
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Re: Carving Tools and Sharpening

Post by Doug Bernhardt »

Yes.....tools are the same BUT....sharpened differently. Thats a whole other kettle of fish. Pye would know his sharpening and the video well worth it although I haven't seen it. The bonus is seeing it in real time. Kelly.....I thought you had taken Shane Dunford's class!? Did he not delve into this arena? It's the single most important part of carving. It's interesting to note that until recently all the carving tools you would buy never came sharp. It was expected that you would already know this well.
joe cieslowski
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Re: Carving Tools and Sharpening

Post by joe cieslowski »

Doug,

How/why would there be a difference in sharpening a tool to be used for in-the-round carving from relief?

Joe
Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!
Doug Bernhardt
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Re: Carving Tools and Sharpening

Post by Doug Bernhardt »

Hi Joe,
A steeper inner bevel than used with lettering which keeps the tool looser. Like a cabinet-makers chisels. An absolutely flat back means it won't wander when doing dovetails and the like.
Kelly Thorson
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Re: Carving Tools and Sharpening

Post by Kelly Thorson »

Thanks for the link Erik, I ordered the video. It's 1hr 52 mins long, I should be pretty smart after that. ;)
Doug Bernhardt wrote: Kelly.....I thought you had taken Shane Dunford's class!? Did he not delve into this arena? It's the single most important part of carving. It's interesting to note that until recently all the carving tools you would buy never came sharp. It was expected that you would already know this well.
Yes I did take Shane's class, the design aspect of it was great, but there were a lot of CNC people there and we seemed to get drawn into talking about that way more than carving. I guess it was the dynamics of that specific group. That was the one thing I was disappointed in for my purposes, but I was a minority. We did spend a little bit of time on carving at the end of the last day, but by then my mind was pretty fried.
I really haven't done a lot of carving, mostly just HDU and I'd call that more shaping than carving, although most of my dimensional work contains some form of it.
I believe there is no shame in failure. Rather, the shame lies in the loss of all the things that might have been, but for the fear of failure.
Catharine C. Kennedy
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Re: Carving Tools and Sharpening

Post by Catharine C. Kennedy »

I have one of the Chris Pye videos and it's superb- well worth the effort-
Cat :lol:
Catharine C. Kennedy
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joe cieslowski
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Re: Carving Tools and Sharpening

Post by joe cieslowski »

Thanks Doug,

Now that I think about it, most of your work is the traditional scroll type of carvings......a short bevel in your case will certainly help in scroll work when there are a lot of quick curves and coves.

Most of my relief work is very different and the long flat bevel serves me well.

Thanks again,

Joe
Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!
joe cieslowski
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Re: Carving Tools and Sharpening

Post by joe cieslowski »

Kelly,

Glad to see you are getting the video. That will save me a lot of time and effort.

Joe
Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!
Kelly Thorson
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Re: Carving Tools and Sharpening

Post by Kelly Thorson »

Why is that Joe? Did you think I was going to come down there and ask you to sharpen mine? ;)

Joking aside, I think there are lots who would be interested in seeing you put something together should you ever decide to do it. :)
I believe there is no shame in failure. Rather, the shame lies in the loss of all the things that might have been, but for the fear of failure.
Kelly Thorson
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Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:53 pm
Location: Penzance, SK Canada
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Re: Carving Tools and Sharpening

Post by Kelly Thorson »

Just wanted to comment on the Chris Pye videos. They are a pleasure to watch and very concise and clear.
I did find it interesting that he endorsed cooling your chisels in water while you shape them on the grindstone, although he warns about not letting them get too hot. He also does all his shaping by "feel" without the use of guides or jigs. So I guess I've come full circle. :lol:
The videos left me with a much greater understanding of how to choose tools, how to use them correctly and how to properly care for them. Well worth the investment, thanks for the link Eric.
I believe there is no shame in failure. Rather, the shame lies in the loss of all the things that might have been, but for the fear of failure.
erik winkler
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Re: Carving Tools and Sharpening

Post by erik winkler »

My Pleasure Kelly.
Off to bed now, just had a heavy week at the Oktoberfest in Munchen and need to sleep for an other week... :wink:
After that I will go and make some glasspanels.
Realizing we are in the 2nd renaissance of the arts.
Learn, copy and trying to improve...
Still in the learning phase ;-)
Amsterdam Netherlands
www.ferrywinkler.nl
www.schitterend.eu
www.facebook.com/Schitterend.eu
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